In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

I KEEP GETTING MESSAGES THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ENTRY ON THIS POST SO WHERE ARE THEY. THERE SHOUKD HACVE BEEN A FEW LAST NIGHT AND AT LEAST 4 TODAY!

?

22sailors you could ask in the Site Stuff section.

19lottie82
I think that is a bit insulting.
Our trade agreements are done through Brussels at their insistence,that is often to our detriment because of all the "red tape" Should we sensibly vote out we would conduct our own trade deals with Asia and India and still trade obviously with the EU.
See Priti Patels comments on this on the web,she is a Cabinet Minister who sees the great wealth creating opportunity of voting Leave.

I don't know where the current comments are! There have been loads today 8th March but I can't find any on this or the other site I mistakenly used for this subject.

There's a thread here 22Sailors if you're looking for the other main one?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2545490-Quick-Poll-EU-stay-or-leave

I'm thinking LEAVE for solid left wing reasons.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3482057/Leaked-police-report-reveals-spike-migrant-crime-Germany-warns-sex-attacks-violence-radicalisation-rise-further.html
lm thinking leave to avoid this.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3481882/Women-warned-not-night-Swedish-town-multiple-sex-attacks-foreigners.html

Terrible,hard won freedoms being eroded.

22sailors if you go to the top of the page and click "I'm on" it will show you the threads you've posted on.

I have been on the fence for a long time here and vacillated back and forth a good bit too.

I am just about coming down on the side of "stay".

I worry about whether or not we can really afford to go it alone, and what kind of economic and political can of worms a Brexit would open.

I recently visited my DD1 in Paris, had a fall whilst there and seriously fractured my right arm, needing emergency surgery and plates put in to fix it. It is thanks to the reciprocal arrangements within the EU (EHIC) that my considerable medical bills were taken care of and I still have a right forearm. Somehow I just feel it would not have been so easily dealt with from outside of the EU, so part of my reason for now wanting to stay is admittedly personal on that level.

From the EHIC website, a few quotes from this June 2015 article What impact would ‘Brexit’ have on the EHIC?

"European Health Insurance Cards work within the European Economic Area (or ‘EEA’), not just the EU itself."

""if the UK decides to leave the EU, it may well leave the EEA as well. In this case, EHICs would almost certainly be rendered invalid".

but

"there is no need to worry yet. The UK may still choose to remain within the EU. Even if it does not, there is plenty of time for the nation to find a way to incorporate EHICs into a future outside the EU."

Thank you other members I hadn't realised there were 2 pages so problem solved.

Can anyone think of a reason why the reciprocal arrangement for holiday or other health care should not continue. We are not going to war we just want our own democracy - it was only ever meant to be a trading agreement but that is the last way it had been used. All this time we should have been buying together so fir bigger orders or bigger rates ie medications if we had all bought together we could have kept the prices much lower but instead we have all being fighting our own battles and if we had worked together we could have controlled the imports of cheap steel from China and kept the whole of Europe using high quality steal. We used to have a model shop and we were in a buying group for the toy side which meant we could manage a better profit to help us through the really bad times of which there were many. There is no real discussion as there is not a common language which could have been overcome without the whole parliament sitting in a meeting looking as if they are asleep as they all have to listen to translations on earphones - it is a massive failure as nobody thought it through before it began. Nothing can work without good communication and no one is willing. The last war was against Germany as was the first one and Angela Merkel made the latest refugee crises much worse by her stupid statement welcoming millions of people she couldn't cope with.

Interesting, Rock. I admit that recent personal experience is influencing me (arm still in a cast).

All,the threats are just scare tactics which is really disgusting on either side. It shows that they do not have the facts we want as nothing is straight forward or clear about the EU.

22sailors,I have to say I agree with you,and with your business you have the experience.

I'm Leave. Not because of migrants or anything like that but because Brussels is an extra and completely unaccountable layer of bureaucracy, as well as for a number of other reasons well expressed further up this thread, and on others too.

There have been some slightly hysterical meme-thingys being reposted round and round FB which seem to imply that the EU is entirely responsible for every bit of altruistic socially responsible legislation since time immemorial. Well sorry, but we were entirely capable of coming up with legislation (to give a few examples dating back from 1807 through to 1974) to end the Slave Trade, ban children from working in mines, give the vote to all men and women, provide compulsory free education, prevent air pollution, provide statutory maternity pay and leave, ensure builders didn't build irresponsibly, make factories safer to work in, allow unions to form and negotiate, create the National Health Service - and not all of these were necessarily under Whig, Reformist, Liberal or Labour governments either. Quite a lot of conservatives actually have social consciences too you know!

Just because the Labour Party is currently in disarray doesn't mean instinctive Labour voters should be voting short-term -istly to stay in. Labour will sort itself out and become electable again. But if we vote to stay in, our parliament will end up having powers no greater than those currently held by a city council.

But if we vote to stay in, our parliament will end up having powers no greater than those currently held by a city council.

That is indeed the plan of some senior UK politicians:

^"I look forward to the day when the Westminster Parliament is just a council chamber in Europe."
(Kenneth Clarke, Conservative Chancellor in International Currency Review Vol 23 No 4 1996)^

I still feel revulsion when I read those words.

Let's leave. It's our one and only chance. The common market was a million miles away from the EU. The thought of staying in doesn't bear thinking about.

As Boris said on the Andrew Marr show the other day

“This is like the jailer has accidentally left the door of the jail open and people can see the sunlit land beyond.

“And everybody is suddenly wrangling about the terrors of the world outside. Actually it would be wonderful. It would be a huge weight lifted from British business.”

SpringIntoAction,
I concur, those words of Kenneth Clarks are chilling.

TTIP never heard of it, don't worry that's exactly what they want. It stands for Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and is about as easy to understand as the EU but if it is sighed just one of the things it could do is close our health service down by a court case being brought against them by such as MacDonalds or other massive business who can afford to keep a case in court as long as they like as they can afford very expensive lawyers to keep things in limbo until the NHS or other department or small business has to give way and possibly go into liquidation which gives all the big private businesses room to get rid of their competition. This is only one small example - I've been trying to work through it all for over two years as I read about it before 38 degrees started the action. If anybody is interested 38 degrees are running a discussion on the EU on neither side just trying to get at everything which matters which is what the majority of me,bears have asked for.

TTIP is the illegitimate child of the EU. We need to have it abolished.

We are in high risk of neo-liberal anti-moral pro-capitalist ruin by staying IN.

I'm mightily disappointed in the Labour party. I thought they would bring in reasoned, rational left-wing, anti-neoliberal debate to the forefront. But nope. They have chosen to be handcuffed by PC Correct bollox and pro-free-market ideology.

I'm voting Leave. The Stayers say we won't have any influence if we leave but the recent Cameron debacle shows we don't really have any influence anyway.

It's a sorry state of affairs when we have to depend on the Tory party and niche charities like 38Degrees to hear both sides of the debate.

Corbyn has missed a huge opportunity by leading a united echo-chamber of "IN" within Labour party. He has lost my repect. It's the biggest debate of a generation, and he/Labour is not taking part. They have opted themselves out of politics IMO.