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Brexit
Original poster

In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

999 replies

Daisyonthegreen · 01/03/2016 12:49

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

OP posts:
HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 18:36

Buttered

I think you will find that a Remain poster coined the term TeamLurked. Not surprised you are twisting the truth though, I'm sure it won't be the last time.

As for Marx, I keep referencing it as your enlightened posts on Groucho were the funniest things I have ever read on MN.

I do thank you for that. Genuinely.

butteredmuffin · 11/04/2016 18:37

Well that's good, because your suggestion that Groucho was talking about the EU when he said it was one of the maddest things I have ever read. At least we are making each other laugh, eh?

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 18:39

Buttered

Scottish law may be a good career choice?

lavenderdoilly · 11/04/2016 18:40

Chuckling at the idea that I am now "the English ".

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 18:41

You still don't get it. Brilliant!

Hahahahahaha

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 18:42

(Buttered not Lavender)

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 18:44

Muffin, I reckon your TeamLurked posse are too embarrassed for you to let you on on the joke.

butteredmuffin · 11/04/2016 18:44

Oh, I get you, HelpfulChap. Believe it or not, nothing you say is very sophisticated. Hmm

lavenderdoilly · 11/04/2016 18:52

I wouldn't want to join any posse that would have me as a memberGrin

butteredmuffin · 11/04/2016 18:54

Ha! Grin

CutTheWaffle · 11/04/2016 19:32

“Only one man in a thousand is a leader of men -- the other 999 follow women.”
― Groucho Marx

Inkanta · 11/04/2016 19:39

:D :D : D

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 20:07

Cut

Should I explain that to Buttered before she makes herself look a little bit silly again Grin

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:10

Evening all.

To me, the most salient point is the loss of our democracy. I value it too highly to let it be thrown away by the EU.

EU law is made behind closed doors. Our representation around the table is around 4%. Britain has been unable to prevent a single piece of EU legislation being passed and becoming law. (ie our representation is worthless). I do not want unelected Eurocrats in Brussels deciding on the laws that will govern our country. Wouldn't 100% representation around our own table to decide our own laws and trade agreements be preferable?

HelpfulChap · 11/04/2016 20:14

The EU really don't care about democracy do they. Despite the Dutch vote, they are set to offer Ukrainians visa free travel to the EU.

Don't do as we do, do as we say.

butteredmuffin · 11/04/2016 20:22

Anna, that would be nice, but then so would a pet unicorn. You're conveniently forgetting the other parties to such trade agreements.

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:25

More a case of "do as you're told irrespective of what your wishes are".

Q. What kind of government overrules democratically decided referenda?
A. An undemocratic one.

As the EU regime has systematically ignored the outcomes of referenda which were not in its favour, one has to conclude the EU is a dictatorship.

They cannot be unseated, they are not elected, they are not accountable (the EU has never been audited since its inception). Thus a vote to stay in the EU is a vote for dictatorship.

The irony is previous British governments have waged war on countries and toppled dictators in favour of democratic regimes. Yet here is our government handing our democracy over to a dictatorship.

It would be funny if it weren't so very, very serious.

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:29

Muffin, you misinterpreted my post. Of course we wont get 100% of what we want out of a trade agreement but what I am saying is that by negotiating on our own for our own requirements, we have 100% representation on our side of the table.

butteredmuffin · 11/04/2016 20:31

But if the terms of any trade agreement we could negotiate on our own are worse than the terms we could get as part of the EU then how will that make us better off?

lurked101 · 11/04/2016 20:34

I don't really think anyone can crow about democracy when the UK has done many things, in the hue of many governments, that were not in manifestos and therefore not mandated.

2012 Health and social care act and the current acadamisation of schools springs to mind. Neither were on the manifesto.

However, inside the EU we have more chance of influencing policy, outside we are more likely to have to agree to it without influence.

The Ukraine thing is a proposal and must be ratified by enough countries to go throuhgh as well as the European Parliament.

www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-eu-ukraine-idUSKCN0X70SJ

Love the fact that the ad hominem attacks are still coming from helpful and others, means you can't back your arguments #teamlurked

lurked101 · 11/04/2016 20:53

"!The irony is previous British governments have waged war on countries and toppled dictators in favour of democratic regimes. Yet here is our government handing our democracy over to a dictatorship."

This is utter hyperbole, the British government has also supported dictatorships as and when it suited them, and been involved in the overthrow of democratically elected governments when it suited them too.

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:53

Muffin, why would they be worse?

Lurked, but at least you can vote them out. We cannot vote out the Eurocrats that make our laws. This is so important, I cant overstate it enough.

Regarding the influencing of policy, we are marginalised at the EU table. We are underrepresented in proportion to our population size (ie we have the third worse representation per capita). Too many of our laws are made in Brussels. As more and more countries join the EU, our representation will diminish further.

Just to remind you of those awaiting accession:

Turkey
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Albania
Montenegro
Macedonia
Serbia

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:54

oops, forgot Kosovo. sorry.

AnnaForbes · 11/04/2016 20:58

This is utter hyperbole Absolutely not. I am not exaggerating, it is true, the EU is a dictatorship. If it looks like a duck etc.

lurked101 · 11/04/2016 21:07

In no way is it a "dictatorship".

"Lurked, but at least you can vote them out. We cannot vote out the Eurocrats that make our laws. This is so important, I cant overstate it enough."

But we can vote out Governments who deal with the EU as well as the MEP's. It is very unlikely that we would be able to negotiate a trade deal that would involve complete freedom of trade and exemption from EU laws or regulations.

The FT ran a good article today about how the UK should not expect easy EU renegotiatns and this has also been stated by other EU countries.

BTW the UK has been on the winning side of 90% of all EU votes in the last 6 years.

fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/

As well as this the new "red card" allows the UK to raise issues and that they must be addressed in order for a law to pass.

Its not a dictaroship. Your argument is hyperbole.