In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

Yes Daisy, all part of the big plan. We lose our identity, our sovereignty and our democracy.

One of my favourite quotes from the late Tony Benn

"In the course of my life I have developed five little democratic questions. If one meets a powerful personAdolf Hitler, Joe Stalin or Bill Gatesask them five questions: “What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?” If you cannot get rid of the people who govern you, you do not live in a democratic system."

I'd like to ask those questions to Junker or Tusk.

Ergo the EU is not a democracy.

Interesting, if we leave the EU do you think that the influence of US business would be qwakee or stronger? I would suggest that the US would ride roughshod over the UK given that our existing dependencies and leverage in future trade agreements that we would be eager to make around the world.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/659837/European-judges-overruling-Treasury-laws-costing-taxpayers-50billion-court-of-justice
Wow,just what is going on..............This is getting seriously out of order.

Anna Forbes
Quite.Exactly.
An interesting observation of Tony Benn.

Engineer, if the US run roughshod over the UK they will only be doing what the EU do now!

Helpful
So how would leaving the EU in prove the situation? At least within the EU we operate within a constitutional framework, trying to negotiate disparate trade agreements around the world will leave us vulnerable to the whims of the larger power brokers, particularly the US/Russia/China and possibly the EU.

Come on engineer, stop asking sensible questions... You're being such a spoilsport.

Is that the best you can do Buttered, seriously? Swotting up on your Marx?

We work within a framework where we have no say. Rather pointless.

Helpful chap
Exactly.

Why are you so obsessed with Marx?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/11/i-resigned-tell-truth-leaving-eu-british-chambers-commerce
Mums in a busy day please dip into this,hundreds of smaller businesses are signing up for Leave the EU,they are tired of the dead hand of the EU upon them.

Daisy, when I remembered and re-read the Tony Benn quote, it sent a chill down my spine. How scarily spot one he was.

Engineers, I will respond to your comment about trade a bit later.

Engineers thumb
Is that the best you can do you ,you must be from Remain Central.Your argument is flimsy and nonsensical desperate scaremongering.
Trade is Trade and do you really think the EU who needs us more than we need them is going to " cut their noses off to spite their faces".
No jog on ,we will do well when we Leave the EU,we will in fact flourish.
Why do you think Business for Britain want to Leave and Economists for Britain want to Leave.

Interesting, short article that could be used to support either side, I suppose. To my way of thinking it is a nudge to leave, but I could see people arguing that we are on the cusp of reform.

theweek.com/articles/617121/why-eurozone-still-headed-total-disaster?utm_source=links&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=facebook

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659928/TRUTH-Europe-Politicians-MEP
Member of the European Parliament British Dan Hannan tells us of the outrageous expenses that can be had in the EU.Hannan sees this all the time and although he will lose his job he wants us to leave.

Reform?
Mr Cameron came back with nothing!

The Express has to be applauded for actually reporting stuff.
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/659951/EU-referendum-Brexit-David-Cameron-renegotiation-European-Parliament-special-status
MEP 's in the European Parliament are rejecting all Mr Cameron requests for changes for us.We give £350 million a week!
If they treat us like this now can you imagine the "kicking" we will get if we are mad enough to vote to stay in.
They will treat us terribly.
Vote Leave,we will flourish.

Labour MP Ian Davidson wonders 'why would you trust man on the EU when you can't trust h on his own tax affairs'.

Valid point.

David Cameron doesn't appear to have actually done anything illegal or even particularly unusual in relation to his tax affairs. I'm no fan of his (despite Swing's wibblings), but this is clearly a witch hunt designed to discredit him right before the referendum, and the gullible public has fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

Daisy - please try and get this into your head. The newspapers report in a way which is specifically designed to make you think what the people who own and control those newspapers want you to think. They are trying to engineer a result which is in their best interests, not yours.

The Daily Express is owned by a billionaire UKIP donor. It's hardly surprising that their editorial is trying to encourage people to vote for Brexit. But let's not pretend that it's in any way unbiased or impartial, shall we? Even you can't be that gullible.

"Trade is Trade and do you really think the EU who needs us more than we need them is going to " cut their noses off to spite their faces".
No jog on ,we will do well when we Leave the EU,we will in fact flourish.
Why do you think Business for Britain want to Leave and Economists for Britain want to Leave"

So then why do 80% the CBI back the remain campaign, including 71% of SMEs? Why does the car industry (you know one of our biggest exports) back remaining? Same as 60% of the IOD? Why does the notoriously conservative Economist say that in the short and long term exiting the EU would be adverse to the economy? The Bank of England, Citigroup, PWC and others have all commissioned studies into the impact of Brexit and found that back the Economist's stance.

Brexiteers repeatedly state these theories regarding trade deals that have no precedent for countries with EU borders and such a large proportion of trade going to the EU. The EU will not allow the UK to exit and organise a massively beneficial deal to the UK where it does not agree to the four freedoms or pay in. It also ignores the fact that we would also have to negotiate trade deals with places like South Korea and Canada which with the EU we have favourable terms but without the EU we have a far weaker hand to play in any negotiation because we make up a far smaller percentage of their trade and do not have such a large market with which to woo potential commercial backers support.

Buttermuffin
Good gracious I really do not care who owns a newspaper if they are actually reporting........
We then are actually informed instead of kept in ignorance.

Well done Daisy, for spectacularly missing the point.

Rupert Murdoch once said he was in favour of Brexit, because when he goes to 10 Downing Street they do what he says, and when he goes to Brussels they completely ignore him.

In light of that, how impartial do you think the Murdoch press are going to be when reporting on Brexit.

You absolutely should care who owns the press you are reading, Daisy, because it is highly relevant to the issue of whether that information is accurate and impartial, or whether it's misleading.

Have you never heard of media bias? If every publication reported the facts in a completely unbiased way, with no political or other agenda, we would only need one newspaper. There would be no difference between the Sun, the Telegraph, the Mirror or the Guardian.

Good grief.

lurked
You are just a scaremonger because that's all you can do.The article below shows a different view altogether.
europe.autonews.com/article/20150917/ANE/150919829/uks-pro-eu-carmakers-say-plants-not-at-risk-from-brexit

If uk leaves EU then Scotland leaves uk. Can't really get past that.