In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

The Express has an article saying the EU and voting leave are the most googled things at present.
Interesting.

LEAVE is also what most people are placing their bets on at the bookies however the bookies still have the REMAIN side ahead as reflected in their betting odds

There is a petition on Govt petitions to suggest we have 3 organisations count the ballot papers in the Referendum,if anyone googles it they can sign if they so wish,there are 10,000 odd signatures at present.

I wouldn't trust the pollsters on this too much, we all know what a mess they made of the General Election.

As you know I'm not for Brexit but I suspect that the Brexit vote will be stronger than what is being measured right now. Partly because the people who are pro-EU feel less passionately about it, and are more likely to stay at home and abstain. I think if abstention is high, Brexit will very likely win.

Chalalala
Exactly,the Leave campaigners must not be complacent.

You know what is strange, people that I know are very happy to admit if they are Leave buy the remain almsot seem embarrassed to admit it. Odd.

Typos!

There is a petition on Govt petitions to suggest we have 3 organisations count the ballot papers in the Referendum,if anyone googles it they can sign if they so wish,there are 10,000 odd signatures at present

So many people have expressed their view that they do not trust the Government to count this fairly. I met an elderly lady who will be on holiday on 23 June and she is terrified that her postal vote will be destroyed before its counted.
I have never witnessed such distrust of the Government.

But I shall be at the count of the ballot papers so I shall keep my eyes open.

When thinking about whether to remain or leave, I don't think short-term, bean-counting is the way to approach this. Only the very short term can be mapped out in this manner. And for me, I am concerned with the medium to long term. What is best for my children and grandchildren? An Excel spreadsheet cannot answer that. It's a broader, more philosophical question. Voters need to clarify their own values, and do some qualitative analysis about the direction of travel for the EU. They need to concentrate on what they know about the world, history and human nature.
It's a sweeping question that requires broad, synthetic thinking.

"Regular" people seem to intuitively grasp this and get on with the thinking and analysing. A lot of "clever" people seem hung up in the complex, unclear, and largely irrelevant details.

Once we have left the EU there is nothing to stop us looking at any decent ideas that may come out of the EU and implementing them where it would benefit us.

It would be great to have that choice rather than it being foisted on us.

Springing I find it a little ironic how much energy you are spending campaigning for the British government to regain more extensive powers, given how deeply you clearly distrust said government. Presumably for you it's a question of the lesser of two evils?

And 2016, you're right, but not entirely right. I think hardly anyone is relying on bean-counting and Excel spreadsheets to make up their minds. Most people have a gut instinct based on their values and general views of politics and history. And then they use complex micro arguments to justify their gut instinct.

I think broader philosophical and theoretical arguments would be more fit for purpose than micro-arguments. Those just wash over me.

yes but people want to "prove" they're right when they argue with the other side, and you can't really prove broad philosophical arguments. So bean-counting it is.

but I agree with you.

I understand what you are saying. I think you are right about what is driving people, too.

I'm just pointing out that none of these petty points make anyone "right" in my eyes. None it proves anything or answers any of my concerns.

I also want to point out that no one needs a degree in philosophy, political theory, or a PPE degree to do it either.

It would be nice to have old Sandel, do a series on this on radio 4's The Public Pholosopher.

We need to start asking the right questions.

Yes it's also clear to me that the more detailed arguments about complex economic and juridical issues will not change anyone's mind or help anyone make a decision. They're really only of interest to the people who have already made up their mind and want to argue about it

Also entirely agree that the public debate is not asking the right questions, but that's (in my opinion) because UKIP has been allowed to frame the terms of the debate from the start, and both the pro- and anti-EU campaigns are trying to answer their questions instead of asking their own questions.

I agree completely.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659517/Remain-campaigners-EU-Brexit-European-Union-hug-a-brit-stop-UK-leaving-out

Hahahaha,more like Mug a Brit,how desperate are the Remain camp,we get mugged not hugged by the EU to the tune of £350 million a week.

There is a very easy to read pamphlet entitled 101 Reasons Why we should Leave the EU by Hugh Williams,£3 for a copy available from
St Edwards Press,
C/o Barra Close
Highworth
Wiltshire
SN6 7HX
e mail. [email protected]
People keep saying they need info so I am trying to help.

Chalalala
Why cannot a political party set the tone of a debate as far as I have been able to discern they have always been upfront on their views on the EU.
It is up to other political parties to set their tone.
Mr Corbyn is very quiet as he is a known EU sceptic.

Springing I find it a little ironic how much energy you are spending campaigning for the British government to regain more extensive powers, given how deeply you clearly distrust said government. Presumably for you it's a question of the lesser of two evils?

That statement just reveals how little you understand about the issues and how you have misjudged my own position.

It's nothing to do with the 'lesser of two evils'. It's about sovereignty and self-determination. It's nothing to do with who forms the current British Government and everything to do with having the right to vote for British Governments that have the unfettered right to make their own laws.

Because this so-called nice soft fluffy EU Government that some people see as the lesser of two evils may one day be a fascist right wing organisation as Europe swings to the right. And you will be stuck with it - because you thought you were circumventing democracy, without properly understanding the value of sovereignty

Really good article for busy Mums to dip into.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3530980/Please-sack-Euro-MP-DANIEL-HANNAN-money-perks-gets-Brussels-making-Britons-lives-harder-begging-nation-courage-job.html
Written by a euro MP who wants us to Leave because he sees what goes on there every day.He will lose his job but is more concerned that we Leave the EU.

A Newyearforme
I do tend to agree,I am looking to the future for my family and this country.
That is why I will vote Leave,we need Democracy and frankly I see that under threat by the EU and their " superstate" ambitions.Frankly their bulldozer attitude is scarey.Look how they have just treated the Dutch!.

Marvellous news for the campaign to a leave the EU,they will be lining up begging to trade with us.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3530092/Brexit-supporters-seize-figures-showing-trade-deficit-EU-hit-highest-level.html

Um I don't claim to be an expert on Springing's Official Political Position, which is why I was asking a genuine question... but thanks for the lovely response.

Daisy we are actually in agreement on this!