In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

Corbin is not capable of uniting with anyone but himself - it's his opinion or none.

Staying "IN" is not Corbyn's personal opinion though. He voted to stay out, not join originally, then he voted "Leave" for the first referendum in the 70's.

It's some ridiculous tactic that Corbyn believes appearing United as a party on the ref is more important than full debate. No doubt been handcuffed by Oxbridge, EU compliant, millionaire corporate Labour advisors.

When Labour is backing the Gokdman Sachs funded Ian campaign and Labour activists are voting IN because they misguidedly think thecEUvcan circumvent British parliamentary democracy and when the TTIP opposers delude themselves that must stay in the EU and accept TTIP because their tribal politics have deluded them into thinking that Cameron will just pass TTIP anyway (which he legally can't) then decision to REMAIN in is founded on a fantasy of the EU that doesn't actually exist and the EU cannot deliver

Duh! I Obviously meant IN campaign and not 'Ian campaign'!! Fat fingers on small keyboard. Lol.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3483615/Top-five-European-investment-banks-outstripped-counterparts-major-financial-measures.html

Another good reason for Brexit.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/651180/Furious-MPs-eurozone-Cameron-Britain

I cannot believe Mr Cameron would do this.
It would be totally irresponsible to vote to stay in now.

Stay, definitely.

It is madness to leave. If we leave, the following will happen

• economy gets worse / companies pull out of the UK because of all the uncertainty about trade / treaties etc.
• UK spends at least 2 years renegotiating lots of treaties, probably much longer. During that time, jobs & the economy will be a mess.
• no one in the EU will want to give us better terms than we have now because they will be pissed off with us
• we will end up in the position of Norway or Switzerland who still pay into the EU and still have to abide by all the EU rules (to get the trade access) but who don't get to vote on the rules.

Even the people running the leave campaign admit there are LOTS of risks to leaving, and that things will probably get worse. But they are just pandering to the same xenophonic anti-trade sentiments as Trump, without thinking through the consequences.

And it is also worth seeing what other countries think of the stay / leave situation.

The only major world leader wanting Britain to leave is Putin - does he really want a strong Britain and a strong Europe?
www.independent.co.uk/voices/those-who-call-for-brexit-are-handing-european-power-to-vladimir-putin-is-that-what-we-want-a6921386.html

Whereas our allies in American think we are crazy to even consider leaving
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-britain-leaving-the-european-union/

I had to retire early in 1996 and first I studied everything I could about computers and took all the courses available which proved expensive as well as tiring and I then tried my hardest to make what I could about the European Union and the more I learnt the less I liked it as it was robbing us of our freedom which had been hard won in many wars and other means and it was making the laws of this land which is exactly what we are supposed to vote our MPs in to do. If DC wants to remain in then he is voting himself out of power as what on earth do we need two parliaments for. Let's all push for democracy.

Wars. Yes. That's what I fear more of if we leave. The EU exists because it proved impossible to handle uncontrolled nationalism which led to wars that bankrupted us, bankrupted Europe in fact.

The U.K. Lead everybody out of it, Germany started both world wars and ?France held there hands up as soon as Paris was threatened but the U
K paid the biggest price. It's only a few years since we paid the .
Last of our debt to the USA. They didn't give us help,we had to pay for it dearly.

Both Norway and Switzerland have a better standard of living and education than the UK and they only obey rules to a certain point then just stay quiet and get on with life. Neither have poor people or poor pensioners as we do as they have everything worked out. Anybody can have a free education in Norway as long as they speak the language. Isn't that the way it should be?

If anybody wants to,know what the ordinary people of Norway or Switzerland think go on to a self made craft site and ask to speak to people from there and ask their opinion - I think you will be surprised at their answers and their knowledge.

Parietal
No you are incorrect.The Leave people have studied very hard the consequences and we would flourish,I listened to MEP Dan Hannan who is adamant Leave is best to enable us to trade widely and become more prosperous.
I entertained a local businessman in my house this evening he is supporting a Brexit vote,he wants the dead hand of the red tape of the EU that is holding him back to be lifted from his company.He wants to prosper,he cannot do that whilst we are in the EU

£billions would be freed up too to spend on NHS,cancer care,Agricultural Industry,Maternity pay to name a few.

The bogey of Putin is scaremongering.

The Americans have their own business agenda - privatising the NHS this is in league with the EU.
So I am not impressed by their opinion.They have their own business agenda which does not chime with us here in the UK ,where we cherish the NHS.

No it's leave for me and with not an ounce of fear.

Fortune favours the brave.

See link in next post.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/12/how-eu-making-nhs-privatisation-permanent

22sailors you talk sense.

Daisy you talk sense as well!

Wars. Yes. That's what I fear more of if we leave. The EU exists because it proved impossible to handle uncontrolled nationalism which led to wars that bankrupted us, bankrupted Europe in fact.

I fear war too, but the war I fear is the one we will be dragged into if we stay within the EU. The EU is an empire. It is growing as all empires do. It is consuming more and more countries, like all empires do. Sooner or later its desire to enlarge will place it in direct conflict with another superpower that sees the EU’s enlargement as a threat to their national own interests.

For years the EU has been giving millions of Euros to Ukraine in an attempt to woo it into the EU club. When the Ukraine Government said it would not apply for membership of the EU, that Government was overthrown. Russia will never permit the Ukraine to join the EU, so already we have a potential flashpoint between Russia and the EU in the Ukraine. Imagine if Russia acted like the EU is doing with Ukraine, and tried to groom Scotland into a pro-Russian relationship by wooing it with millions of roubles. We'd be upset.

Then we have another potential flashpoint with Russia should Turkey join the EU, and Turkey’s EU membership is being fast-tracked. When Turkey joins the EU we will have borders with Syria, Iraq and be subjected to all the instability of that region.

We are also told periodically by the EU that Russia has designs on the EU Baltic states – to try to make us see Putin as a threat. This is all EU scare-mongering.

If we stay in the EU we will eventually be told to place our Armed Forces under full EU control. After all, the EU will tell us, you voted to stay in and we’re having an EU Army so why would you want to retain your own? Try protecting Gibraltar or the Falkalnd islands when your armed forces are under the control of the EU. Belgium wouldn’t even sell us the bullets to fight the Gulf war.

If we stay in the EU we will eventually be told to give up our permement seat on the UN Security Council as, we will be told, why does the UK need one when you’ve boted to stay in the EU? After all, the UK and France both have UN secutrity council seats, why do you both need one now youre part of the EU. Give them up and let the EU have your seat, just like you’ve done with your seat on the World Trade Council. And th the EU will look at NATO and decide that the EU should represent the UK within NATO, after all, we voted to stay in the EU so why should we want to retain our seat within NATO.

And so on. And before you realise it we are little more than a defenceless group of islands ruled from the centre of the European Empire. Sorry – I am not going to permit my grandchildren to be conscripted into any wars that the superstate Europa may decide to fight in the future.

Safer, stronger, better? I don’t think so. I’m OUT.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-women-should-vote-leave-eu-1548553

Interesting read.

SpringingintoAction

Exactly,vote out I say.

Springing into action - very well put!

I'm certainly voting to stay in the EU. Whilst it's not perfect I believe that the concept of cooperation between countries as a block is a sound one. It annoys me when people blindly complain about red tape and regulation. Working in a technical environment I have seen great benefits from standardisation. A particular example being the marine equipment directive, this directive massively reduces the amoint of seperate national flag state certifications thst manufactuers must obtain indeed mutual recognition agreements mean that countries outside the EU also accept EU certification. This has helped maintain the UK as a world leader in marine navigation equipment. I heard someone complain about the working time directive. Whilst I think it should be stricter, this is a piece of legislation to prevent working people being driven into working extreme hours. How can protection for working people a cross the EU be a bad concept?
The change that I would like to see is the formation of party politics in the EU. Instead of electing MEL's from national party lines I would like MEL's to be clearly aligned with an EU party with a clear manifesto and structure as posed to connecting with speedster interest groups. A party political org would also help people engage and relate to the EU more easily. Yes there are issues but it's better to work on those from the inside rather than become an increasingly irrelevant state isolated by nationalism and rose tinted memories of the good old days that weren't really that good.

MEL's should read MEPs, autocorrect... can anyone blame that on the EU too!

Engineers thumb - why do you think that ruling our own country again will automatically mean non cooperation. Are all the countries not sensible enough to realise that cooperation with other countries leads to a much easier life for everyone. The Union was never supposed to mean any more than a trading agreement of it had remained that way perhaps we would all be perfectly happy but even the full meaning of that never came to fruition.

I firmly believe there was a hidden agenda from the beginning.

22Sailors, I hardly think that now is the time to start spreading rumours of intergenerational conspiracy theories!
Non-cooperation is not the same as non standardisation. However, both have negative impacts on society and the economy. I have seen and felt the benefits of the EU in industry and benefited from improved employment protection. The fact remains if the UK leaves the EU each area of bussiness and society will either continue to implement the same regulatory set without input into the development of that framework or implement a UK specific framework. Thus resulting un any exporter or individual having to comply with two sets of regulation... How is that an improvement!
Why do people continue to see the EU a threat, accross Europe people are proud to be European celebratingthe success as well as challenging the failures. The out campaign seems to be a collecting point for every ill of the world, never mind that most of the gripes have very little to do with EU membership.