In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

Daisy You mentioned upthread that muslims want out of EU. Why is that, do you know?

The subtext of Chalala's concern for migrants who have committed serious crime, is that their human rights come before the rights of their victims.

If a refugee escapes his war zone he is clearly desperately trying to save his own life and knows how important it is to get to a safe country. Well, if it is that important then why does he then break the law by committing a serious felony? It conveys that as it's now safe for him and he's got food in his belly and a roof over his head, he decides to just go out and do what he could do back home.

ToothFaerie

I can't keep up with these name changes. Can you PM me in advance next time? Cheers.

Just post a link to the No Borders website and get it over with.

"UK is still a signatory of the 1951 UN refugee convention,"

The time has come for this convention to be revised. 65 yrs ago the world was very different with low populations. Britain had lost many men in the war and although refugees who were released from the camps chose to settle in the UK, their numbers were still a drop in the ocean and never caused Britain any over-population. Everyone worked. On arrival, refugees were given a hostel bed, a bit of money and an appt at the Labour Exchange to find work. That money was towards food, clothes, bus fares etc, and if it ran out before you had secured a job then you would have to give a very good explanation why you had not found a job.

Apart from The Netherlands, England is the most densely populated country in Europe. UK as a whole the 3rd most densely populated.

Oh no, HelpfulChap, not the NB people again with their Emperor's new clothes take on reality.

Waffle: You can argue that the 1951 Refugee Convention should be revised - BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU REFERENDUM.

VERY DISAPPOINTED. to see that this thread about the EU has drifted off into discussing the merits of

Refugees, No borders etc

In the MN. 'In the News' section you will find whole shiny threads dedicated to

Turkey - Deal or NonDeal. All about migrants and the legality of returned them to (wherever)

And

Cologne which is all about the cultural impact of Migration by migrants from a different culture

Can we PLEASE stick to discussing the EU here?

The result of the Dutch referendum on the EU's links with Ukraine will be known shortly after polls close at 9pm this evening

Lord Owen (Dr Owen of Labour and SDP fame) said today that we must vote LEAVE to save the NHS. This is a man who's spent much of his career extolling the virtues of the EU. To be saying LEAVE just shows the extent to which the EU has failed

The subtext of Chalala's concern for migrants who have committed serious crime, is that their human rights come before the rights of their victims.

I don't see how sending someone to prison for a crime they committed is putting their right before that of their victims.

as for the removal of criminal migrants, it is not a "subtext", it is a question I am openly asking: when someone commits a heinous crime, are we allowed to strip them of their human rights? personally, I think not, but I am open to discussion.

sorry Springing, will try and stay on topic, but that's where the EU discussion seems to have led somehow

Lord Owen's concern seems to be primarily linked to the TTIP, which i agree is concerning. For info the "in" camp's response today was -

Lord Owen’s claims about the proposed trade deal with the US are utterly untrue. The UK government, the NHS, the US government, and the EU are crystal clear that there are specific protections to ensure that the NHS would be unaffected by TTIP, which has the potential to increase jobs and growth in Britain. This baseless scaremongering is beneath Lord Owen and the British people deserve better.

I don't know who's right, but I suspect it's not a black-or-white issue.

Springing: In the interests of maintaining a balanced debate, you might like to consider the comments Will Straw from the Britain Stronger in Europe group made about Lord Owen's position

Lord Owen's claims about the proposed trade deal with the US are utterly untrue. The UK government, the NHS, the US government and the EU are crystal clear that there are specific provisions to ensure that the NHS would be unaffected by TTIP which has the potential to increase jobs and growth on Britain. This baseless scaremongering is beneath Lord Owen and the British people deserve better"

Cross post - slow typer

I'm not discussing Lord Owen on this thread.

Drinkstoomuchcoffee control-c is my friend!

Springing- but you introduced the Lord Owen theme to the debate

it may be a factor, but it's a rather indirect and debatable one, since Britain is not in Schengen (ie vets every single entry to the country)

To what degree are people "vetted"?

On a different thread

Following my comment last night about our refugee policy, today there are moves by the European commission to scrap the Dublin regulations which state that asylum should be sought in the first safe country. Instead, the European commission will draw up plans to redistribute asylum seekers across the EU and Britain will lose its powers of removal.

StepintotheLightleave

I don't know exactly, but Britain can certainly run whatever security checks they want on all entrants - from a former security minister:

‘Free movement’ actually means the ability of EU citizens to work in Britain, not to enter Britain unchecked. In fact, the UK operates full border controls for all entrants into the UK irrespective of nationality or point of entry.

Because we will not join the passport-free Schengen area, the control of our borders will remain in national hands. Since 2010, the UK has turned away about 6,000 European nationals from entering our country on security grounds. Hardly unguarded border control allowing people to wander in.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/25/britain-not-safer-terrorists-eu-pauline-neville-jones

Anna

Shall I start a new thread on the proposed changes / replacement to the Dublin Agreement or would you like to do this?

Cut the Waffle
Well said .I sadly have 27 collated reports of rape,murder ,molestation,I can post them in due course.It makes grim reading.
Sadly there are probably more cases but the authorities have hidden them.
Originally the cases were leaked on social media as reporters were actually allegedly told not to report on these crimes.
Such is the hideousness of the situation now in the rotten EU.

Chalalala
If we vote to Remain believe me we will be "strong armed" into open borders - The Shengen Agreement without doubt,vote Leave is the only intelligent option.

Daisy: why should we "believe you"? The treaties are very clear. The mechanisms for changing them are clear. What is not clear is the basis for your assertion that "we will be strong armed into open borders". Perhaps you could explain?