In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

but when you say "not worthy of our protection", what this means in practice is "not worthy of human rights" (because sending them back, if they genuinely qualify as refugees, is a violation of their human rights)

now you're allowed to think they should be stripped off of their human rights, but that goes against some of the most fundamental principles of western society.

again, i don't have answers here, but my instinct would be to say the only thing to do is to force them to follow the law of the land and send them to jail here if they don't. It's not a perfect solution at all, in fact it's a very bad solution. But it's not quite as terrible as the alternative.

Let's agree to disagree.

I will never puts the 'rights' of rapists and paedophiles above the safety of British women and children. But what do I know.

HelpfulChap I'm very happy to disagree on that, because it's a hugely complicated and emotive issue. And to be quite honest I'm not entirely sure I'm right. The way I see it, it's one of those problems that has no good solutions.

(Something that does annoy me though is that from reading the media you would often get the impression that refugees = male rapists. Yes, that's a huge issue. But it shouldn't make us ignore all the other refugees, and in particular, all the children refugees, including thousands of unaccompanied children, who are innocent victims and who do definitely deserve our help)

(still nothing to do with Brexit, btw)

While we are on the subject of refugee children then I will counter with this.

The German government says around 5k child and teenage refugees have gone missing since the start of 2016 (a mere 3 months!) and they cannot rule out that some may have been the victims of crime.

Still, let's all worry about the perpetrators human rights, after all that's what really matters.

I think it is a factor to consider regarding Brexit. Bild magazine suggest that 500k unregistered migrants are 'roaming' Germany (their words).

The wise decision to vote LEAVE in the forthcoming EU referendum on the 23 rd of June this year is a multi faceted ,one cannot bracket it ,
for example an article today in the Express that I shall post below cites the NHS
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/658517/EU-referendum-Brexit-NHS-Labour-Lord-Owen-Jeremy-Hunt
Plus of course there are the sound Business reasons already cited.
Plus of course Scientists for Britain want out,Muslims for Britain want out etcetera.

it may be a factor, but it's a rather indirect and debatable one, since Britain is not in Schengen (ie vets every single entry to the country), and its signature to the Refugee Convention is not related to the EU.

forbritain.org/cogchapter21.pdf
This section of the Business file for example deals with Justice and Home Affairs.

scientistsforbritain.uk/wordpress/
This link for Mums who may not have seen it makes the case by eminent Scientists to Leave the EU.

Should we be mad enough to vote to Remain in the EU it would signal our utter capitulation,we would then be forced to accept total free movement which is known as Shengen.
We then have no say on our borders at all.
No ,no ,no the wise person will vote a resounding LEAVE on the 23rd June this year.

We vet every single entry into the UK? I'm sure you mean every LEGAL entry.

Are you saying Germany doesn't? That must be how they managed to lose 500k.

Daily you are sounding every day more like a Leave Campaign HQ internet bot.

also could you please stop with the "mums" thing, as a mother who also happens to be an educated human being I find it highly patronising.

well yes, every legal entry. Surely that's the relevant bit here, since presumably Brexit wouldn't fix the illegal entries!

Daisy: You state that if we vote to remain, " we would then be forced to accept total free movement which is known as Schengen"

This is simply not true. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just do not know what you are talking about. Some Brexiters are of course deliberately spreading lies to stoke up fear over migration.

The UK has an opt out from Schengen. There is no reason to assume that that will change.

Dink's

Sorry but I disagree. A stay vote will give this or subsequent govts carte blanche on Europe. After all, they will have been given a mandate no?

As for immigration, I have been saying it til I am blue in the face but I am all for it, as long as it is on terms.

The EU actually prevents us accepting more skilled non-EU workers.

On our terms

Helpful. Actually - no. Our Schengen opt out is in the treaties and it would require treaty change - on which there would need to be a unanimous vote - to alter this.

Sorry helpful -may have misunderstood your post on first reading.

My point to Daily was that any change on UK Schengen opt out would require treaty change that the UK - and the other 27 member states- would have to support. Obviously if the elected UK government of the day wanted to change the Schengen opt out for some reason, they could then push for the necessary treaty change. That is the nature of democracy and of the EU.

Personally though I could not see this happening in the short to medium term as it would be a vote loser. No political party would push for this in the current climate. And the risk/benefit of removing border controls will always be different for UK than it is for mainland EU countries, as a result of geography.

LEAVE. Fed up with Britain being everyone's rent boy.

The Regressive Left has cocked up this country, they are everywhere: in the media, arts, medicine, academia, education - and regardless of whether we have a Tory govt or not, it's their shouting down debate and therefore getting any govt of the day to do U turns. They are very powerful. They are Marxist-Common Purpose-Open Borders and have betrayed this country.

I am fed up with the International Health Service, I am fed up that I cannot attend my own local maternity wing(because it is nearly permanently FULL) to give birth because 80 percent of those delivering are predominantly Polish, ME and African, in receipt of in-work credits, have council housing, tax credits and god-knows-what-else.

Trade won't stop - even if Anna Soubry, the Tory MP says it would.

Soubry reminds me of those who were sure that the Millenium Bug would wipe out our computers when we moved from 1999 to 2000.

It would be great to hear some truth not fear or xenophobia. I want to hear about the real losses and gains, not fear and loathing in the EU.

P.S. Turkey, like Ukraine, will never be allowed to join the EU, they will never get the votes necessary. As for refugees, bring them on. We blew the shite out of their countries, help keep them in poverty, caused instability in their countries, sell their leaders arms not food/medicine/books. We have used their minerals/slavery/low pay to live a relaxed free life, so should they.

engineer said Leaving the EU will not impact the actions of sexual predators not will it impact non EU migration or our responsibilities to refugees!

Being in the EU has impacted on hundred & hundreds of women and their families in Europe already. Have you not read the Sex Attacks in Cologne threads? There are 9 of them. The pawing, molesting, digital and actual rape still continue - little boys & girls being raped as well by recently-arrived migrants that Mrs Merkel invited in.

chalala as far as I'm aware the UK is still a signatory of the 1951 UN refugee convention, and therefore does have a responsibility to refugees. How do you suggest we screen the genuine refugees who "want to sexually assault us"?

By looking at what happened on NY Eve 2016, and understanding that sexual assault in countries of origin is commonplace against women and children (having as one called it, "a sexual emergency"), even against women covered up head to foot.