"Man in ladies loo (with little daughter)" - and separately "Man in ladies loo (with wife with dementia)"

[ThisGreenMoose]

Hello. 1st time poster. Part of this thread has already been discussed in great detail two years ago (www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4935748-man-in-ladies-loo-with-little-daughter?reply=130518972), however the world has significantly changed in the past two years so I'm interested to see people's opinions now, plus further down I ask in relation to my mother with dementia.

I'm a man (early 40's), I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter, and I typically do all the shopping. I was in big Tesco's yesterday and unfortunately just before going to the checkout, my (recently potty trained) daughter told me she needed a wee. With a full trolley I knew I couldn't ask her to wait to check out and get home, so we trundled off to the toilets (leaving trolley with security).

The men's toilets were like ones at Glastonbury at the end of the weekend. My fellow man is (quite fairly) not generally known for being hygienic nor courteous to those using facilities after themselves, and whilst I can put up with it for myself when needed, now I had to get my daughter through there as cleanly as possible.

The floor was wet, bog roll everywhere, unflushed toilets, seats down with wee on them. My daughter was trying to touch anything she could, which made things somewhat difficult whilst carrying her (to keep her from getting wet feet) cleaning the seat, unpacking/unfolding the portable mini seat, getting her to do the business and cleanly out of there. Told my wife of the ordeal when home who just asked why I didn't use the women's toilets, and she said no woman would mind all things considered.

To be honest I wouldn't dare go in the women's toilets. I am well aware of the reputation of men generally, and I absolutely agree with women having a safe space. I'd hate for a woman or girl to feel uncomfortable or threatened by my presence. I'm a bit of a closet feminist.

However, with my wife's opinion shared, and had the men's been worse or engaged, would you say it would be fair or right for me to go in the women's toilets? Or can you suggest anything I could do differently?

Separately, but on partly the same topic, my mother has dementia (FTD) and is currently capable of using the toilet herself, but my family know she is not far off progressing to the point where she will need care. Our father / her husband is caring for her at the moment.

I'm sure there will be a time soon when she is caught short whilst out and about, and my father will need to help her (or myself if I'm looking after her). Should he/I be going into the women's toilet with her, or take her into the men's? I suppose as she has a hidden disability she could genuinely use the disabled toilet if there was one.

Interested to hear people's opinions. Thanks

So you support the women on this thread who are challenging this man's expectation that female facilities should also be the facility of last resort for men? The women who are pointing out the solution he appears to be blind to which is that he's perfectly capable of running a wipe or bit of bog roll round a nasty loo? Good.

He’s entitled to not take his daughter into the men’s toilets. He is not entitled to march into the women’s toilets.

female facilities should also be the facility of last resort for men?

I wasn’t there, and whilst wet wipes might help in the future we cannot conclude that is wasn’t the “last resort” to OP on that occasion.

When your with your mum use the disabled and do the same with your daughter.
I agree that men have no right to use the womens toilets but when my son was young and I was out alone with him I always used the disabled toilet or changing room. As a survivor of SA there is no way on earth I’d send a little boy into the men’s alone nor would I want my toddler daughter exposed to men with there cocks out at a urinal.

Why have you assumed he marched? Why make it emotive?

Yes and there’s a difference between men with their cocks out in a men’s toilet and a man fully dressed, in a space with only cubicles attending to a small child.

What scenario do you imagine prevented him making the toilet acceptable to his child that was not just down to his own piss poor (hah) planning in not carrying the essential small-child kit of a packet of wipes or hankies and some hand gel?

And of course, how would you have expected him to handle that scenario with a boy child?

So you wouldn’t use the disabled toilets because you are not disabled but you would use the ladies even though you are not a woman. That makes no sense whatsoever and reveals how you really view women and their private spaces. You will respect a disabled person’s right to their own space but not a woman’s right to her own space. And you are happy to model that attitude to your daughter. For fuck’s sake we all have to deal with disgusting toilets when we are out and about but that doesn’t mean that our desire for a cleaner toilet for our own child trumps the rights or wishes of others. Your daughter is not going to come to any harm whatsoever using a disgusting dirty toilet. Just wipe the seat clean and make sure she washes her hands.

Coming through Paris in 1991. Used the loo in McDonald's and a man came in with his young daughter. Took her in a cubicle, sorted her out and left.
I was surprised but not bothered. French women in there didn't bat an eye.

In your situation, as things are today. I think I would ask a female member of staff to check the toilets and advise women that a man was bringing his infant daughter in, giving women chance to exit if there was an problem.
I don't think most women would mind. Clearly not a predator whilst protecting your child. Supermarket toilets are rarely busy

Sorry, I should have said invaded.

This

I have two boys and feel quite uncomfortable about them using the men’s toilets. My eldest is now at a stage where he feels self conscious using the women’s toilets and will rush into the men’s. I have stood at the door before “monitoring” because he rushed in before I could stop him. Women are vulnerable to men (and as a victim of rape and CSA I’m only too aware) but children are more vulnerable again and don’t benefit from the same cognitive ability adult women do to process risk, but also apply rationale to the situation.

Personally I think the accessible toilet is the best solution, but you’ll see the thread I linked where MN, on the whole, disagreed. Problem is everyone is advocating for what they think is the ideal solution for them and their ultimate comfort and safeguarding, whereas the ones who can’t advocate, the children are the only ones who’s best interests aren’t considered. Says a lot about the posters in my view.

Your daughter is not going to come to any harm whatsoever using a disgusting dirty toilet. Just wipe the seat clean and make sure she washes her hands.

Likewise the women of this thread won’t come to any measurable harm in this little girl using the ladies.

aren’t there parent and child toilets in Tesco? If that fails I would have used the disabled if no one was there.

The little girl can use the ladies.

But not accompanied by her Dad.

Complain to the supermarket about the state of the men’s loos. But take your child in there.

your mum uses the disabled toilet.

alternatively, get a home delivery.

To be fair the poster (man) wasn’t blind to it, he used the men’s. It was his female partner who suggested he shouldn’t have.

She’s just potty training? She probably can’t get onto the seat by herself, needs help wiping and getting her pants up and down?

So he takes her to the gents.

I have no idea if that’s true but what an excellent initiative if they do 👏🏻

One big circle you’ve been on.

I'm a dad of girls. I never once took them into the women's. They came into the men's with me until they were big enough to go into the women's by themselves. If anything wasn't clean I wiped it up.

No i haven't.
No men in the ladies.simple

None of the stores in my city and we have 3 big Tesco extras - they have a baby change with no toilet