White women, please be honest about this

[Lightsmother]

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race

As for this.
What is there to see ‘through’?
You say it as if it is something to be ashamed of.
My mixed race Japanese/British and Black African friends ARE who they are.
I don’t have to ‘see through’ anything.

plan to slim all of that down. Don't know where the 'get slim' came from but it would be a bonus!

I find women difficult to make friends with period and I’m white. I actually seem to connect with black and mixed race women more, I don’t know why. There just seems more room to connect, more relaxed, more open less judgemental, less about money, less about status. Most of my friend are of black origin and we like to socialise, music, dance, have a drink here/there.

I live in a diverse area now and lived in another growing up. When dd was little I made friends with a few non white mums. We’ve drifted now, a lot because of my illness. We still chat on bumping into eachother, just I don’t get out much.

In general I’m the sort of person who is afraid of saying the wrong thing and hurting people’s feelings and tie myself in knots if I think I have. I’m more vigilant around adults originating from a different culture because I may unwittingly say something hurtful. I have done what I can (with my brain, which doesn’t work that well anymore) to try to understand other people’s religions and how they see the world.

I wish I was colour blind like my dd. But I grew up around a lot of racism. I did my best to protect my friends in school - it wasn’t much as I was afraid too. Differences with skin colour and other divides between children was a big thing when I was growing up. Children in my school were not tolerant. And when a couple of new muslim girls, who didn’t speak English joined the school, I admit I did think and say a couple of unkind things - one of the girls smelled strongly of bo. But I got to know them and realised how cruel those feeling were and that they were really just like me: Confused and just wanting to be accepted.

As for my dds friends, interestingly, regardless of ethnic origin, I don’t really register what colour their skin is. I can only think it’s because I know what the adults will have been through whereas children in general seem far more colour blind days.

Shared humour and experiences are what takes a friendship to the next level for me.

My DD is 17 and her group of friends looks like the United Nations. She is the only one who is white British. One is of Chinese origin, one Hungarian, one Indian and two of Pakistaní origin.

My friends are all white British middle class, University educated, middle aged women with professional jobs - just like me.

The difference between me and DD is who we come into contact with.

Would I be able to get beyond someone's race? Well, yes.

I have a really good laugh with a colleague in her early 20s at work. She is of Pakistaní origin, though she went to school here. She is bright, fun and irreverent! If we were similar in age we may well have been friends.

If she was wearing a full face veil I may not have ended up being so friendly as I find them off putting. (I don't like face masks either, but they are the law. Come to think of it I always found clowns scary too as you can't see their expressions).

In some cases it can be accent. I work with colleagues in Scotland some of whom have really strong accents that I can't understand, same with some foreign accents. It's hard to be friends with someone if you can't understand what they are saying.

So as others have said, it's more culture than simple race or skin colour.

My best friend in school was a Jehovah's witness, white and British, and because I was atheist she was really restricted to how she could be friends with me ie. No birthday celebrations, not able to visit on certain days etc.

I do have friends of different races, but again, we have such a huge difference in the way we live our lives, religion usually being the point of contention which puts a spanner in the works.

The friends who are a different ethnicity, whom I am close with usually recognise no religion and we actually have a lot of hobbies and activities in common.

And as other PP have said, sometimes I just think some things are inappropriate which culturally they see as perfectly acceptable (ie. Slurping food realllllllly loud in public, etc.) That it's sent me running because I just can't bear it.

@Lemonylemony I sometimes find I don't even really 'hear' the name in order to say it back. Either because the person's accent is so strong I can't work out what they're saying, or the sounds don't register enough for my brain to be able to create a visual image of how that name would look (which I appreciate is specific to the way my brain works and processes information.... I'm very visual).

It's like the way some languages have sounds that you need to be introduced to as a child to stand any chance of being fluent as an adult. I tried learning Arabic but it was too late for my brain to learn to hear some of the sounds.

If I see a list of attendees written down first I have a better chance of pre-preparing my brain to listen out for sounds. But I can't stare at people's tiny little name tags or lanyards, rolling my mouth around the sounds as they say them!

One of my favorite ever people is a colleague from Pakistan. We just click on so many levels and have so much fun working together. Our cultures are supposed to clash in the sense that she practices religion and I don't. She wears a head scarf, doesn't drink, doesn't eat meat, and isn't in a relationship. I sit there eating my steak and drinking a cocktail and talking about my life, and she will have a salad, tea, and cake and tell me about hers, and the differences never matter. I think we are interested in each other's lives and the differences actually make for great conversations. There is no judgement on either side, and we have the right combination of personalities to make a good friendship. She was sent to live with her brother who had found work here rather than marry in Pakistan, because she is infertile and has a skin condition that makes her unappealing to men in her country. But she is absolutely stunning!!
On the other hand, I have a friend from India who came over through an arranged marriage to my dhs friend. We have a lot of things in common in the sense that we both have kids the same age. She does drink and party, so some might see that as a better match. She also has her own career so we should have lots in common. But we just don't click so well. I wouldn't spend time with her one on one because we'd have nothing to talk about. It's just a personality thing, in the same way with white women. I look for friendships where the conversation flows naturally, sparked by a natural interest in each other's lives. I always get the feeling with this friend that I'm getting scripted answers, and that it will take years to get beyond that level.

I have close friends who are of Asian descent but they’re all British born and very British in outlook / culture.

On the other hand, from working at a big university I have been friends with people from all over the world both white and other races but these friendships have always been less deep, isusally the women have been in the uk temporarily and intending to “go home” so I feel that affects the relationship.

One of my best friends is Chinese, moved to the UK in her early 20s. Her attitude to kids and family and life is very like mine and we have lots in common.
She has introduced me a few times to her Chinese friend but this woman is a real tiger mother, her attitude to raising her kids is nothing like mine and we have very little in common. I'm not interested in being her friend.

As I get older I'm definitely more picky about my friends. I'm not interested in listening to the Chinese woman above talk non stop about her kid's progress in violin and how hard it is to make her do 90 minutes of practise. I do think I make judgements faster now than I used to. If we don't find a connection early on, or if you seem quite different in outlook to me, I would probably just move on. And I'm less in need of new friends now, I'm happy with the ones I've got. I'd always say hi and have a chat if we met but unless I find we have lots in common I would just leave it at that. That seems harsh written down, I'm glad I'm not a newcomer to an area as an adult.

I'm non-British white married to a white English man and I do struggle to bond with white English women. In all honesty, I think its on both sides and it is entirely cultural.

They seem to have all these unspoken societal rules that are not always clear to me, or even if they are - they wouldn't matter to me as much as they do to them. Also, I've found that conversations with culturally British people are primarily 'external' whereas where I come from the onus is on 'internal'. They'd have hours long conversations about everything external to them - politics, economy, school, other people. In my culture, that is done only with acquaintances and true friends focus on 'internal' things - how YOU feel and what YOU believe in, how you're processing external circumstances. I can do both, but in all honesty - the first type of conversation bores me to tears after a while, so it is my fault I don't bond more with them. I am sure they are all lovely and open up to people they are close with - I just never seem to make it past the social chit-chat stage as it lasts longer than in my culture and I get bored.

Ironically, it seems to me (and I may be wrong) that British are quicker to label someone a friend (judging entirely from what I've learned from my DH and our social circle). Conversations he has with people he considers his friends (and conversations my MIL etc, would have with friends) are types of conversations I'd have with acquaintances.

So I guess it runs both ways. The concept of friendship differs - British seem to take longer to build close friendships whereas my culture tends to do it faster but with fewer people. Nothing wrong with either - just not very compatible.

I think I connect best with people who are non-British, regardless of race (I am recent white immigrant). I usually connect best with ambitious, family-oriented and we’ll-educated people. Most of my friends are first generation, and almost all are socially liberal (non-religious, support gay marriage, big on women’s rights, drink) which I think is a big thing for me.
My best friends are Middle Eastern, Continental, Eastern European, American, Brazilian, Russian and Korean.
Most of my friendships came out of previous work or from a group in university, and are based on extended periods of knowing each other rather than instant connections. I’ve dated quite a few guys who are south East Asian and who I would now count as friends/acquaintances and fit in with them very well, but interestingly have never really known a woman of that background well.
I’m a busy person and I think generally not very open to new friendships, so the people I am friends with have come from specific environments. I don’t think I’ve ever really felt sisterhood as a thing, I don’t think this is something most women do.
I think the important things for connection are being in the right environment, having similar interests and similar values. I don’t get on well with quiet/shy people, I like bars and am quite clear on my views on women, which I know would cut out quite a few potential friendships. Cosmopolitan, international women are those I connect with, regardless of race.

I’m not white and as the above poster says, white women cliques never seemed interested in knowing me. Found Baby groups and school run places the worst for it

I AM white and white women cliques have never been interested in knowing me either! I'm just not a cliquey sort of person I think.

Personally I've never been bothered what colour or race anyone is - if we have nothing in common I'll still be friendly with you and if we're on the same wavelength I'd hope you would be my friend.

Yes Whiteroseredrose was just thinking about my teen and the friendships there are representative of a huge range of ethnicities. There are issues with racism at the school though and am sure that some children are affected by this. My teen is often pissed off by the school’s approach or by other kids but his group are popular and sporty so probably find school life easier than some other kids do.

I've had many friends who are Asian when I was at University. I was always fascinated with their culture. I found white English girls much harder to get on with (I'm an Australian by upbringing) and gave up after awhile. It's important for me to share a good sense of humour with someone, if we don't have that, doesn't matter where they come from, we won't end up friends.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg sorry to be clear as mentioned before, I’m British and was born here. Didn’t arrive as a child.

I think it’s probably a cultural issue.
I live in quite a tight knit working class community which not many move in or out.
There are different races here, but we all have the same accent, we’ve all grown up in the same town/village, men have played sports together, people know other peoples grandparents etc. My family is mixed race, our friends are different races, but we’ve all grown up in the same culture.

@EssentialHummus yes perhaps sisterhood takes it too far - I suppose at the very least I meant familiarity.

Not sure if 'South Asian' is perceived as monolithic by educated white women in the UK.

I think it’s a universally common thing. Everyone seems to stick to their own. It’s certainly not just white women. I’ve found that non white women tend to do the same. Quite sad really. We’re all equal.

I'm white, my child went to a school in a gentrified area. I found a lot of the white mums aloof and snobbish. My collegue (aision background) said she had the same experience with them. Now dd is in secondary school the parents are more mixed (not white British), its alot more easygoing.

There Is honestly no difference at all. I’m not able to tell you what percent of my friends are white because that classification does not even enter my consciousness at all

I have non-white/ bame friends. But I'm socially awkward (autistic and adhd) and have been very anxious of saying something wrong, as I'm crap with white people and I am a white people. I'm huge into other cultures, languages and societies, but am extremely awkward as a person. It doesn't stop me trying to be friendly with non white people; just worried about being part of the problem.

I am white and grew up with friends of many backgrounds and cultures.
However when I moved from the city to a smaller town, away from all those I knew and had my children there, I really felt like an alien. I just didn't sing off the same hymn sheet as these women in my new community, although we were all white. I had very different life experiences, different educational opportunities and even simple things like exposure to other cuisines. I felt like a fish out of water.

When I moved back to the city (different to my home city) those feelings just melted away and I made a new set of friends.

I think it is to do with background and experiences not so much skin colour.