White women, please be honest about this

[Lightsmother]

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

@picklemewalnuts

I occasionally feel a slight anxiety about whether I'm doing something wrong- asking questions or not asking questions for example. Both can be perceived as racist/insensitive/othering.

This 😬 I’d say the majority of my friends are white but I do have non-white friends and would never be put off making friends with someone or the basis of their skin colour. But like the poster above, I sometimes don’t know whether it’s appropriate to ask certain things, as I don’t want to come across as ignorant or anything.

I'm really sorry that this is your experience. I don't think I am like the women you describe but if I was, would I even recognise it or would I be offended and go down the some of my best friends are... route and not recognising unconscious bias? I seriously hope not, mainly because my husband is neither white nor British and our now adult children are obviously duel heritage (but is saying that background or simply a version of some of my best friends are...) but it is something that concerns me because sometimes people simply don't recognise their own bias and get angry when the possibility is pointed out. I've seen it. People should never dismiss such possibilities without out first taking a really long and honest look at themselves.

I would never say I don't notice colour because obviously I do. My eyes work. I see skin colour, hair colour, height, size... It's not that you don't see it. It's what you do with what you see that matters.

I am white - born and raised in UK but now living in Australia.
I find a lot of friends here are 'foreigners'. Australians have their own mates from school etc.It has taken me a long time (7/8years) before I started to make true friendships.

On the other hand I had a friend at work who was Malaysian Chinese. We caught up a lot outside of work, with our kids etc. I introduced her to another Malaysian Chinese friend and they became bosom buddies over shared interests/ mutual friends from Malaysia etc and now I never see either of them. I guess they were more comfortable with one another than with me? Sad as person 1 and I were good friends.

I first moved to England to study — am white, from another European country —and after the first year, when I was reflecting on friendships, I realised that my friendships with white English people were about six months ‘behind’ my other friendships. I had British Asian friends from the start, one of whom I’m still very close to decades on.

I think that subconciously we tend to gather with people we have lots in common with .Not just Colour ,but Class ,Culture and so on .That said I enjoy meeting people with different experiences to mine as well .Some baby groups can be quite cliquey though.Some white women may have a different experience to you ,some may be more outgoing it depends on each person up to a point as well.

I have two close female friends who are not white and my closest male friend is Asian. I agree about what people say about culture being more of a barrier than race, although one of the friends above did grow up in India so it’s not always the case. I think maybe if you are in an environment where the women have known each other for a long time that may be a lot harder to break into, and then your race is maybe a further way of you being even more of an outsider to that group. Is that the case? It can happen independent of race too - I know a couple of people who’ve moved to Nordic countries who say it is incredibly hard to break into friendship groups there as culturally there people tend to have a few close friends they spend all their time with and not really open up access to that group to anyone else ever.

My DC’s primary school is quite racially diverse (previous school in a different area was not diverse at all). One of the mums organised a Xmas night out. It was planned on the class WhatsApp group so everyone knew about it. Many of the white parents came, and not a single one of the non-white parents did.

What’s going on there? Are the African and Asian parents afraid of turning up and feeling awkward and excluded? Or does some of the blame lie with them, i.e. they are not making much effort to integrate with the rest of the group?

I am not really sure what "sisterhood" means. I like men and women equally and would not discriminate.

I am not sure what "see through her race" means either. Obviously when you meet someone you notice all kinds of things about them and more as you get to know them. Most people where I live (a minority white London borough) are not white. I would tend to have more things in common with the Asian doctor and family up the road than say my working class white neighbour a few doors down simply for class and educational reasons - I play Bach at the piano every day, my children went to private schools and I speak in a certain way so the Asian family have more in common with me than the white one because of their educational level and hobbies, private schooling, accents, but they are all good people and I do not want cosy dinners with any of them as I prefer my own company so I am an equal opportunities non-social person I suppose.....

I'm a white woman and I have friends from different races and cultures, I genuinely don't see their skin colour. My mum and dad brought me and my sister up this way, and with the thing of relating to their cultures I can't always relate but I do try to understand and usually admire, I think it's nice to learn about the world considering our culture and beliefs aren't the only ones. ❤️

Yes never see race it’s more about connecting with the person - do we have things in common, similar sense of humour etc. Colour, race or religion don’t come into it for me.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race

I'm friends with people because I like them. Race doesn't come into it.

If you don't see race, you are ignoring a huge part of who that person is.

@ImaginaryCat on the learning name thing - which I find can be an issue just as much with white people - I did have to ‘get over’ the fear of being thought of as rude and now do make a habit of confirming I’m pronouncing someone’s name right when I first meet them, and it has made forming working relationships etc much easier. Just as important with English names (Elizabeth, do you prefer full name or Liz, Lizzie, Beth etc? Oh I’m never a Lizzie!) as those from other cultures. The process of saying it out loud helps you to remember the pronounciation for less familiar names as well.

People tend to gravitate and stick to what they know. There are a lot of racists, too.

Also a lot of people think they aren't racist when they actualpy are...advice to op is to stay open minded and hopeful but not expect much from anyone.

I work with 36 women. Most of my time is spent with a group of 7 of them.
I truly ‘connect’ with 3.
With the others we have a superficial ‘friendship’ at best or polite working relationship at worst.

These women are different ages, races, religions, backgrounds. I ‘click’ with some of them better than others depending on whether our personalities go well together or whether we share the same outlook/ interests etc. Nothing to do with colour or ethnicity.

The 3 I connect with the best who are good friends:
Friend 1: White British
Friend 2: Black African
Friend 3: Japanese/British mixed race

We form friendships by connecting with people. Some people find this easy and have hundreds of superficial friends, some have small groups, some just one or two.

It’s hard to say why you don’t connect without knowing you.

Only time I have struggled if I'm honest is with thick accents - but this is overcome if i get to spend time with the person.

We live in a racist society, even those of us who work at recognizing and overcoming our unconscious bias. I'm sorry OP that this happens to you and I'm sorry you've felt people imply it's your fault.

So would I "see through" your race? Probably not. Would it stop me from wanting to be friends with you? I really, honestly hope not. I live in a very white part of the UK and most of my friends moved here rather than grew up here - definitely agree w PP about settled areas where everyone went to school together etc. But a good half of my colleagues are non-white and some of those are non-British including some who have become friends. Maybe work is the connection but I'd have thought school/university/ baby group would be a connection too. I think it is pretty inbuilt. I hope you start to meet a few individuals that make you feel differently.

I am white but from a different country and I can relate to your experience, although I fully accept that it is very different as I don't carry my difference on my skin. Most people won't know I am not British until I open my mouth.

The distance and the lack of bonding is very real. I have generally made friends with other women who for one reason or another were also different.

I think that it can be extremely lonely extremely if you have become a parent recently. Very difficult to do, but try not to overthink it, because if you do, it will be ALL you see, and you will be unhappy. Be you, and true friends that will stick will happen, but it will take time.

I have a few non-white friends (all British Asian/ or British Asian and white mixed) who I can honestly say I don't treat or think of any differently to my white friends because of their colour. I guess I do see through their colour in the sense that it just isn't something I notice or think about regularly. Obviously we do talk about things related to their colour sometimes, but more really their culture.

However, as a child I grew up in a really diverse area that was majority Asian and black. In school all of my friends were from different backgrounds/different colours and friendship groups were also really diverse. I think as we got older (so late secondary) there was a slight but definite move towards groups based on people's colour/culture. I went away for uni to a super white place, and since then almost all the friends I've made have been white. I've realised that the ease with which I made friends with black and brown kids and teenagers isn't there anymore. Imo it's more because of different outlooks and experiences of life (e.g. me going away to uni, getting a professional job when lots of the people I went to school with didnt) but I do wonder how much of it relates to the people that I'm used to now. E.g. a lot of the Asian girls I was friends with when I was younger got married and had kids a few years younger than me. We were just in massively different life stages.

I think it's a big factor but not the only one. I'm a Jew from a wealthy South African family. I've been in the UK a decade now and when I look around at most of my closest friends the thing we have in common is (drum roll) - private school educations! Which is fascinating given the other differences in culture, upbringing etc. I find it alternately amusing and horrifying.

I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them

I think, gently, that this might be an unrealistic expectation of any women. I don't think I feel this, as someone with a lot of friends and casual acquaintances, who is white.

I don't think I see through anyone's race (and I don't think it's something to aspire to), but I can't imagine my awareness of someone's race affecting how much I connect with them. But - and I live in a really ethnically diverse bit of London - I see that a lot of my friendship groups are predominantly white. Which does point to something else going on. But there were no/few non-white women at pregnancy yoga, NCT etc - why? Is there a barrier to inclusion? Are these stereotypically white activities (yoga??!)? Or is something else going on?

You sound like your faith in old friendships has been shaken. I don’t think this is that unusual as people have kids. I am another whose friends come from a range of countries Poland, Hungary, India, Japan, Eritrea and have mixed race, white and BAME UK born friends. My youngest is twenty years younger and oldest twenty five years older, sone are men. I like people and am naturally talkative - I still find some places easy to meet new people then make a friend and others harder. I live and work I a place where it would be hard to only know white people but where there is a strong white local community. One of the reasons I have been to loads of kids parties where I am the only British born is that I am not local and made more effort with the other non local parents. My Indian friend did find it hard but she was shy with weaker language skills than she was comfy with- as they improved she blossomed and having then Moved for work twice has just got stuck in and made more friends. With some friends we talk quite a lot about race, culture, religion, colour and life in the UK but we have never discussed whether we can be close because we take that for granted - I will check now though but I do really know my friends are great friends. I wonder if you have just made some less good friends.

Might it be the area you live in OP? The area where I grew up people are super friendly. The area I have moved to, I have tried and tried to make friends and have now given up and no longer want to even try. I have a lot of commitments to this area but have a five year plan to get slim all of that down, sell up and move back 'home' to normal people. The thought of growing old or needing a care home here makes me shudder.

I think that the breezy “I don’t notice race” comments are a bit glib and minimising tbh.

At least we haven’t had the “blue with purple spots” cliche yet!

I am white and made friends easily when I was young, but found it harder from my 30s onwards. As I have worked abroad and lived in different parts of the UK, I’ve often found myself trying to fit in with new people and sometimes different cultures.

My closest friendship with someone of another culture (she is Asian, living in England) grew through a shared interest. On reflection, that is how most of my friendships have started in recent years, other than friendships with neighbours.

And now I think of it, my Asian friend is very warm and tolerant, very easy to get on with. She has some strong cultural views that I would not question, but I can see she does not easily take offence.

The thing about making friends as you get older, if you move to a new place, is that people get settled in their busy lives and their friendship groups, so they are less open to newcomers.
You arrived as a child, OP, so that wasn’t your situation at the time, and you did make good friends. But you are now questioning the friendships. Is this from a change in your outlook?

I often felt ’other’ than those around me even at school, because of various social differences. Still made some good friendships, but some have drifted apart for natural reasons because our lives have moved in different directions.