White women, please be honest about this

[Lightsmother]

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

I think it can depend on where you were raised? I have a few friends who are British Chinese and have the same sense of humour/cultural references. I have met quite a few Eastern European's through playgroups and I find it had to connect with them as there seems a cultural barrier.
I have another friend who is Japanese but has lived in England for 15 years since going to uni, and I confide in her like I would in any other my other friends.
In my experience it really depends on the person.

@fascinated

Well, OP has not come back to reveal

In what specific ways these other women “bonded” or enjoyed “sisterhood” that she felt excluded from

Or

What she herself has done , and perceives herself to have failed in doing, to “fit in”

So I don’t know that we are ever going to really get anywhere

Agree. I don’t think OP actually wanted any help. If they did, they would have given details to allow more constructive answers.

I don't think you can always give useful advice online regarding this. You kind of have to be a fly on the wall to see how good a person is in any social setting. The best you can do is speculate and there will always be a degree of projection

But why would the OP have to justify herself on what she has done to ‘fit in’?? That sort of questions seem to either be directed at people who are non white or immigrants or as a why to pull the OP apart to ‘prove’ it’s all their fault. It feels very much like an interrogation.
Seeing how MN works I wouldnt want to answer that sort of question either tbh.

Besides, the OP never asked for HELP. She asked how is it that things are different and what are white women attitude/what do they think etc... It’s a way to try and understand what you know is your daily experience but from the other side.
She actually clearly stated she didn’t want help and had no issue to solve as such as she is happy with her life and her friends.
But she wanted to understand. What is wrong with that?

I do see through race but also see it if that makes sense. I wouldn’t ask someone I didn’t know about their background but at the same time I love learning about people’s backgrounds and cultures especially if they’re different from mine, from many ethnicities. I have black friends and friends from other countries and we connect brilliantly. More recently with the BLM movement we’ve been talking about racism and in a way that has made me look at our differences more and shown how much racism they’ve experienced that they’ve just quietly dealt with. But mainly we just get together for food, drink and laughs.

But why would the OP have to justify herself on what she has done to ‘fit in’??

I never said she had to justify herself but she makes vague statements and it's hard for me to constructively reply without more information of her experiences. Tbh it was a goady thread on reflection.

We live on a tiny little Island full of white people, people think this is just a British problem. This situation happens all over the world. My dd works in the Middle East as a flight attendant. She works with every nationality. It took her about six months to realise different nationalities and cultures all act differently. She originally thought some cultures/nationalities were rude, abrupt, standoffish. We are a northern working class family who will talk to anyone so I know that she would have been trying. My dd is very very good at her job and quickly forms professional relationships with the people she works will as she could be spending 4 days at a time with complete strangers.

Tbh I wish white British people would stop getting beaten by sticks now. Since time began different races and cultures have always gravitated to a likeness to ones self unless put in a situation where they have venture out beyond their norms.

She’s also encountered prejudice, this isn’t just a white person issue.

I went to an friends child’s party. I know her and her dh from school. Both are Indian in very respected jobs. Her dh is a bit of a hero to me. At the party there was a few white school mums and then later on her Indian friends came and all sat with each other. There was defiantly a white side and an Indian side. All were lovely we all chatted but there first instinct was to sit together. Nothing wrong with it. People just gravitate to like it’s an unconscious bias on all sides. Not just a white issue

I am white, I moved 40 minutes away from where I grew up in South Wales and it took me 2 years to make a friend which was also someone who had moved here from England and didn't know anyone.
I think people just like what they know and don't like change to be honest. No one really bothered to talk to me at baby group (except the older women who were there with grandchildren) or in the playground at pick up time because they already had their friends and cliques. I don't think it's a race thing to be honest.
I would still talk to you though if you were in your own and looked like you needed a friend

Also of course people will see race first because they would be other wise blind. People are proud of their race and heritage we shouldn’t pretend it’s not there.

I think it's culture.
I am a white woman raised in the UK but with a different cultural background because my family are from other European countries.
I struggle to connect with English women and so most of my friends, some also UK raised, are both white and other skin colours, but with a mix of cultural backgrounds.
I find our differences are what makes us interesting to each other and we build our friendships on that curiosity. I don't have the same experience with English women.
I also think there it is possible that women who have family and deep history and clear heritage etc are probably quite satisfied on that count and less likely to be open to connect with outsiders. They just don't need to.

Byallmeans, yes cultures different eg on the Seychelles last year on holiday we could not believe how rude some people (not British) were to the staff, clicking fingers, shouting as if they were all their personal slaves! You would not get that in the Uk currently in 2020 but it was obviously the norm in the countries from which the holiday makers came. Locally some men do not look or interact with me as I am female and uncovered but that's fine - I know back here in my mostly not white London borough some men (not all) are from that culture and we all pretty much live in harmony so it's not an issue but certainly is a difference.

Also it depends where you were born eg we have a lot of Indians where I live who are British and been here for 2 generations and culturally they are similar to me in lots of ways and then my sons went to school with a few who had come over from India specifically to go to their school in London so they were Indian Indian as it were and that was different - not worse or better but different and actually very interesting - as someone said above a lot of us want to know about different cultures and people. It's fascinating.

I went to a school that was at least 60% Asian so I don’t have this issue. But having said that I remember being in class at school once and noticing that all the white girls sat down one side of the class and all the Asian girls on the other (choosing seats) so you may be on to something

I'm Indian and British by birth. My family wee not very traditional, we lived in a mostly white area, and I went to a predominantly white school. I thought my life and how I lived it was not unusual, until I went to university and met other Asians, and met with their disapproval over. H lifestyle.
I now live in an area with lots of Asian neighbours, and don't get on with any of them. And it's. It just the usual neighbour problems, there is a definite clash of values. It's difficult to explain, and I'm rushed this morning, but there are expectations that I will not and can not meet, e.g the expectation that I will give in to and accept an unspoken hierarchy that they appear to have (I think) based on age, gender, etc. They also disapprove of how I dress, I've noticed, especially in summer, although I don't wear revealing clothes.
I just don't fit in at all

I've had many friendships with non-white women and race never played into anything. Perhaps your trying too hard to fit in and it comes across in a way that may put people off you? I'm not saying that to be nasty, I've done a similar thing myself when I was younger and wanted to fit in. Be yourself with whoever (regardless of race) and if they aren't interested, shrug it off and forget them. Not worth your time or effort. But let me tell you, there are plenty of white women out there who will be friends with non-white women so please don't think otherwise.

The older i get the more i think all these type of behaviours stem back to how and where people grew up. I grew up in the most culturally diverse places, and went to school with kids of all colours, so much so i was 1 of the 2 blonde kids in class of 30. Now living in pretty much a predominantly white area, but if i ever seen, met, or talked to anyone of a different culture or skin colour it wouldn't even get in the top 10 of first things i think of.
So i think it really depends on the area you live, but then again its a very difficult thing to assume.
All the best.

@Lightsmother

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

Hi

Yes. I agree with you 100%

I'm a South Asian woman, originally Bangladeshi, I'm 27, born and bred in the U.K. and no racism intended but I don't feel the same connection with white women the way I do with Asian woman.

I feel more close to Asian women, I guess because of cultural reasons and that I can relate to my own kind more.

The same applies to white guys who feel closer to other white guys, Asian guys with Asian guys etc.

It's just yeh way it is.

I’m early 20s (gen z) and think this is something my generation is doing right

Older generations merely tolerate other culture, whereas younger generations see people from other cultures as exactly the same as them so there isn’t the same barrier involved.

I do think it's cultural rather than about skin colour.

I'm half Eastern European but born here. Despite having a lot of close friends, I really felt different when my DCs started school.

It came as a bit of a shock as I've always felt completely British, but I found so many of the mums were quite cold, tough and reserved (across all classes) compared to other women from similar backgrounds to me, who seemed much more relaxed at showing their emotions, high or low, and were sort of like children compared to the true Brits (in a good way!).

This is a really interesting question. I have a lot of non-white friends but we grew up together, so the culture is similar. Therefore the only time we really think about race together is if we are discussing someone else outside the group being racist, IYSWIM. Otherwise we don’t consider it. I think if you’re missing that sense of solidarity it’s because the other women don’t sense obvious warm vibes from you and the rhythm of the relationship will feel a bit off.

I am white. I haven't got any friends. Don't know why. People just don't like me.

But, when I have had friends, my best friends have always been black. We just get on. I do see colour, I won't lie. But I don't see anything negative in colour. If that makes sense.

I’m sorry this is your lived experience op. Please know this is not all white women. I am white and would connect with you just the same as if you were white. Only an inbox away if you need a friend.

I am white British - I lived overseas for many years and have lots of friends from different cultures.
My experience is that the British in general can be standoffish, they are not always especially warm hearted or open by nature. The class system pervades social circles as one reaches adulthood and this seems to have a bigger bearing on friendships than race or mutual common interest.
You are usually very welcome if you are wealthy/well connected or have popular children and family regardless, however the friendships seem superficial to me as well op in comparison to my international friends.

I have had to work very hard at filtering out the superficial, and it’s taken many many years to build up a genuine set of friends that really care. Yet when I lived overseas it was automatic. Effortless conviviality. No one judging at all.

I am not saying all British women are self absorbed social climbers that do not value true companionship, but I am saying the currency of friendship appears different here, even to me.

I am not sure it’s a race thing op, only you can know if it is, but my experience has been similar and I find my British friends can be complicated sometimes too.

I would also say my French and Italian friends are similar to the British, my Swedish, Australian and Nordic friends are very open and relaxed. It’s definitely cultural and not necessarily ‘you’ op.