White women, please be honest about this

[Lightsmother]

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

@SnuggyBuggy

I think it's a fair point that us Brits can be very reserved and unfriendly. We are quick to point the finger at immigrant groups "not integrating" while not considering the possibility that they may have tried and been given the cold shoulder.

Agreed.

White women are not a homogenous mass with the same friend preferences, just as Asian or Black women aren't, and just like being a woman isn't either.

As for "seeing through" colour, then isn't that denying the lived experience off all of us?

As for your question OP, who knows? Maybe you haven't met someone you will click with, but has that anything to do with skin colour? It seems to do to you. Some people just don't make friends easily, some try to hard it can be off putting. Others don't really need friends.

then you'd have asked with neutral language, without all the hyperbole. I wouldn't discuss it with you the way you've phrased it, so I'm not surprised at the few answers. I"m not originally from Britain either, and I am often very aware of things that I feel I should know - about everything! - and don't.

I'm really sorry that you feel like this, OP. I think a lot of white British women are quite narrow in their outlook tbh. I don't think it's necessarily about skin colour as such, but perhaps because of the assumptions that they may make as a result of the skin colour, e.g. about culture, religion etc. I think we're a very ethnocentric society.

I do have quite a few close friends from other ethnic backgrounds, including my closest friend who is British but of South Asian descent and another very dear friend who is from an East Asian country.

I would not say that I don't see race, as I definitely notice it. However, I don't see race, culture or religions as barriers to friendship either. I think it probably helps that I lived in East Asia for many years, and my DH is South Asian. As a general rule, I find it much easier to make friends with people who have crossed cultures in some way, regardless of their ethnicity, as I feel that we have more of a world view in common.

You are coming off as a bit chippy, OP.

Not denying there's an issue with racism. There is. But if that's your attitude in real life, I'd struggle to be friends with you.

Okay let’s get some things straight - I have lots of friends both white and non white. But I don’t feel a strong closeness with most of the white ones - and simultaneously witness a closeness between white women.

What I’m talking about here, trying to interrogate, is do white women see non white women as other, or as just another woman in the school playground, office, soft play?

JFC. A bit chippy, rude and touchy. I’m done here guys. Have fun.

@askinfforfriend

I'm white but from another country and have been here 20 years. The vast majority of my friends have been non Brits. There is some cultural block I find with British people that makes it hard to connect. They're friendly but rigid and not totally welcoming if that makes sense? Everything is surrounded by rules, nothing is relaxed. The birtday parties that abruptly end on the dot, the formality of invitations....Hard to explain, but it's cultural differences I suppose.

I had a (White) friend from America/Canada who lived in Britain for three years. She said the cultural differences between the America and the UK came as a huge shock to her and she found it much harder to adjust than she expected especially compared to other places, like Asia, with more obvious cultural difference.

Like many expats she made friends with ‘locals’ but mostly she gravitated towards other expats and particularly American expats (regardless of race).

Rigid is the word. I'm British born but remember graduation from a friendly social campus uni and thinking I could go out into the world and find the same relationships. I was deluded, just got acquaintancezoned.

I'm not trying to shut down this conversation. It's interesting.

I was agreeing with a suggestion to look for commonality rather than difference, when trying to make friends.

If you walk into a room and concentrate on all the ways in which the group there is different, Other, to you, then I can well understand that you may feel self-conscious, uneasy, embarrassed, excluded. It's true that all 'the white women' in your OP may have more basic things in common with each other than any one of them may do with you; the same is probably true of a group of south-east Asian women and one white woman.

BUT differences do not preclude friendship. And I would also say that real friendship is a very different thing from 'having basic traits (of nationality/colour) in common'.

aksin may have hit on a good point there about the British being harder to warm up as it were. I think it is a cultural difference e.g. I do not like people using my first name. I am Ms XYZ until someone knows me well and I still don't like my children's friends thinking it is okay to call me by my first name. That is just traditional just British formality and may be it just takes us a bit longer to be chummy with new people of any kind - remember we used to leave printed calling cards when visiting neighbours in the afternoons in the UK - you don't just show up etc. Other cultures (and indeed other British classes) are more in and out of each other's houses.

I would never even before CV19 want to do that hugging thing the french go in for and kissing - a firm handshake if you have to touch at all is more appropriate.

However none of that does not mean the white middle class British don't make friends with people who aren't white. we do, all the time and is one reason people flock to the UK as we are quite friendly and tolerant of difference compared say to Dubai with its class/social hierarchy.

As someone said above however most humans can find common ground with most other people. I can usually find it with anyone - that one thing that we have in common. Working in Nigeria with women lawyers I found most of them had chlilren and some were considering British boarding schools so they actually felt closer to me than an average white unmarried male lawyer might in London.

I think your thought processes are stopping you from getting close to other women based on their skin colour.

Are you feeling inferior? You should try to see yourself on the same level as them and relate to them as fellow human beings.

You have to remember for a lot of white women - we have no concept of being aware of our skin colour. We have grown up completely comfortable ( and it’s only in recent years that we have had to reflect on our privilege and it’s come into our minds).

It being something we don’t think about and is a non-issue for us, actually makes it easy to be comfortable with people as people and not thinking about skin colour. Because that’s how we think about ourselves.

Connecting with women can be hard and can be difficult- it depends on the person, IMO.

As other what? I see every single woman as other, as different.

There are so many things we see, how you speak, do you put your rubbish in the bin, are your children screechy, what breed your dogs are, what you do, are you interesting to talk to, are you funny? It's not about skin colour, but If course I notice that too, it's your lived experience, it's what makes you you. If it makes you someone I'm happy to spend time with, then I will. If not, I won't, but it's not a single factor decision.

My BFF is mixed heritage (I'm white) but was brought up in a very 'English' family. Growing up my community was very white British which I know my BFF had some difficulties with: University was quite educational for me in terms of meeting people from other ethnicities and cultures, as well as many overseas students - I didn't know if I could/should be friends with them, or indeed how to make friends and to share life experiences.

It is only as an adult (and having being exposed to some horrific racist attitudes from some of my family) that I can now have to confidence to approach women who are 'different' to me - to ask questions about that which makes us different, to broaden my understanding of the way we were brought up, to have (long, often alcohol-fueled) discussions about the way in which we see the world differently to each other.

I would say this is also true of my relationships with anyone who I didn't mix with in my school years - sexuality, disability and academic background to name a few others. It is only with the benefit of age and maturity that I have been able to develop friendships with people that some would describe as 'different' to me.

The non white friends I have grew up where I did - their cultural touchstones are the same as mine. I may not relate as well to someone who has grown up in another culture, with different collective memories, be they white or non white.
I grew up in America, but now live in England. Even between these two similar countries there are differences enough that on occasion I sometimes more naturally get on with someone with an American background, and again the reverse as I was brought up by English parents.
Plus it works both ways - how do you see white women?
And there may be a separate factor - you are pinning certain interactions down to race, but it may due to another reason: do some people not relate to me because: I am white, I sound American, I am a single mother, I am middle aged, I am overweight? Or maybe we just don't 'click'?

I definitely agree with all the posters that say British culture is stand offish.

White woman can be anyone here. You cannot lump them all together, from the millionaire to the farm worker, from Britain through to Romania.

I work with a lot of South Asian ladies, we get on well but are not ‘friends’ in the deeper sense. Why? Really because the things I like - going to the pub, to rock gigs, music festivals etc are not their thing. So it’s not a racist thing - it’s just a zero crossover thing. They like me and I like them but there aren’t enough common interests to translate into friendships.

then you'd have asked with neutral language, without all the hyperbole. I wouldn't discuss it with you the way you've phrased it, so I'm not surprised at the few answers. I"m not originally from Britain either, and I am often very aware of things that I feel I should know - about everything! - and don't.

@Grumblyberries, I'm not originally from Britain either, and I don't think I'd actually had a conversation with someone who wasn't white before I arrived in England, because I came from someone with almost no ethnic minorities. But if I thought that my own ignorance was unnecessarily restricting my friendships, damn right I'd make a point of educating myself out of it. An anonymous thread like this is a safe place to ask about things you might feel you can't ask about in RL.

Really because the things I like - going to the pub, to rock gigs, music festivals etc are not their thing.

I'm white, but you won't be friends with me either. Going to a music festival is hell on Earth for me.

I will talk to anyone and be friends with anyone who is friendly to me.
But I apparently give off the wrong impression - probably due to the bulldog-chewing-a-wasp resting bitch face that I have - so not that many people. :(

I'm not going to say I don't "see" colour skin - of course I do - but I don't differentiate how I talk to people because of it.

For me, it's not about skin colour, accent or even culture - it's whether we have a laugh together and can chat about stuff. Even if your culture is wildly different to mine, I'll still be happy to be your friend - accept and be accepted.

I am a white woman and two of my closest friends are non-white. I love these two women they have helped me through some of the hardest times in my life. There are times when we might not be able to totally relate to one another in regards to our upbringing/cultural differences but that could be the same in any friendship group we all have different life experiences and beliefs. For instance, when they say they have been subjected to racism I can't relate to that - I can offer my sympathy and tell them that I am sorry they have gone through that but as a white woman it is something that fortunately I have never experienced and so all I can do is listen and speak up when I see it, I can't however truly understand how that feels. I don't think it hinders our friendships though and I hope that they feel the same.

do white women see non white women as other
Surely that depends on the white woman? On where that white woman lives?

I live in a very white area, so I notice if someone is black or Asian because it's unusual. I assume that someone who has moved to the UK from abroad will have different points of reference to someone who has lived in the UK her whole life (and I have lived abroad, and I found English culture a bit odd when I first had to deal with it at school, despite having British parents). I'd also assume that someone with Indian parents who was born and grew up here will also have different points of reference, but also more cultural overlap. But I'd make the same assumptions about the local Poles, for example: it's not to do with colour but with culture.

But I don't think my friendships are governed by where someone is from. At least, I hope not.

Reminds me of a workplace where it was about half Muslim and half non-Muslim and the non-Muslims (mostly white with some exceptions) occasionally went to the pub together.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that at least Muslims aren't allowed to be around people drinking alcohol even if they abstain so wouldn't join the pub get togethers. I'd sometimes suggest doing something else so that everyone come join in but a lot of the non-Muslims acted like socialising without alcohol was an alien concept.

Doesn't make either side wrong but it did lead to a "them and us" culture.