White women, please be honest about this

[Lightsmother]

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

@Lightsmother

I’m a South Asian woman and genuinely feel white women are unable to fully connect with me in the same way they are with other white women. I don’t feel a genuine solidarity or sisterhood coming from them, regardless of how hard I try or attempt to fit in with their norms.

When you meet a non-white woman, do you really see through her race?

From school to university and now parenthood, it’s a difficult experience and I am constantly considering how each meeting and interaction would go if I were white.

I think people {especially those of us who grew up in big cities} to not really notice race at all.

Even as a 'White' woman, amongst other White women, I don't feel any particular 'sisterhood' either.
You are not alone ! Really close friends are rare beasts.

Or maybe that's just me being socially inept.🙂

Well I can understand your post lljkk Well said!!
I think you’re over thinking all this OP I have never judged anyone on the colour of their skin in my life. I click with some people and others not. It’s that simple. You seem to be very judgmental about...’White women’ but that’s ok apparently
I lived in a very welsh part of Wales for many years, trust me I know exactly what being an outsider feels like and it’s got sod all to do with colour.

This thread has made me realise that I don't have a single friend or even colleague or even neighbour that is non-white.

Lots of friends of different races, nationalities, religions, political spectrum etc.

I find the more different a culture a person comes from it can take longer for me to get a feel for what type of person they are (conservative/liberal, prudish/outrageous, easily offended/easy going etc.) and I tend to be a cautious to not cause upset or offence or embarrass myself.

I don't change who I am for different people but I do choose what sides I reveal, what I talk about, and pick when I engage in debate or just nod my head.

@Lightsmother
Try not to focus the other women's heritages - You'll either connect or not , I Don't think it has as much to do with our heritages as personal likes and interests?
But loneliness is a thread that goes through many of our lives, especially as a new mother.
My DS is now grown, but I felt on the outside at mother and toddler groups, and same at school- The competitiveness so many mums seemed to have just didn't interest me much.

Not racism but related to the Ramadan point above and who complained.

In our staff room a LBTQ staff member was having a joke with us all and our resident joker made a comment. It was taken as meant and wasn't an insult or direct comment - more a play on words of a theme related.

No offence taken or given.

Next we thjng we know the staff member is in bosses office having a telling off.

The LBTQ staff member then went in and said if she is offended by someone's words she will raise it with that person. And if she isn't happy with outcome she will escalate it. That she will decide what is offensive to her and not the boss via someone else.

Boss still didn't get it.

Week later staff as a group were spoken to as canteen takings down as people went out for lunch. He was told straight that we weren't going to eat somewhere that policed our conversations and decided for us how we should react.

My point is that within my very diverse group of friends most agree that for inclusivity and diversity to work properly then people have to be allowed their diverse lifestyles which are open for anyone who wishes to join in. But by having no chatter and joking, celebrations or whatever we are diverse and inclusive. We are just nothing.

Interesting. I have worked in a very big office with a high turnover, lots races, creeds and characters worked there I also spent most of my summer holidays in Brixton. I’ve noticed everyone has something in common however different they seem. Most humans want the same things, love, success in some way and good relationships, that’s utterly universal.

Maybe work on the things you have in common, not the things that are different. Don’t just blame yourself for awkward encounters, it takes two to communicate.

You may need to find more open minded people to hang out with, some circles can’t tolerate any difference whatsoever, they have the problem so just move on and let them live in their narrow minded little world.

"@HBGKC God I hope we never meet in a baby group or otherwise :)"

Interesting. You've just written me off as a person forever, based on ONE general comment. That kind of snap judgement about someone is ok, is it, @Lightsmother?

I really don’t care for people who shut down conversations about race with “it’s all identity politics”.

IME on the "is it possible to be too international" point raised by a PP: You could almost consider the internationally minded 'straddlers' as a cultural group of their own. I find when everyone in the group is from a different country/background, you really hone in on the basic commonalities between people, whilst being interested in the fascinating cultural differences. The downside of such a group is that people are so international that everyone is always moving about - you will have a friend from Singapore for three years, who will then move to New York etc and so people come in and out, whereas in a small rural village the friends you make might be around you for decades.

I have several friends from Asian backgrounds, and love them to bits. We have a shared interest and life experience, which is what many friendships are based on. One in particular is the most lovely person I know, but she is from a Pakistani background and very traditional, and I do feel there is a part of her I will,never understand and the fasting, when she is terribly thin already and caring for a disabled child. Outside that I'd do anything for her, and I know she would do the same for me and her other friends.

@Grumblyberries don’t call me rude and touchy thanks - no need to get personal is there.

My best friend is a person of colour. But we have very similar background as in middle class, same school, similar personalities and jobs. Cultural differences with parents but we ourselves are very similar. I think for some people they don't mix much.

I think friendships are a lot about shared life experiences and it's sometimes difficult to bridge the gap if they are vastly different. Eg once a woman gets married and has a baby, a lot of her single friends fall away and she makes new friends in similar circumstances

@StuntPond

I probably have to give up on thread because I find MNers write very vague descriptions & then other posters declare "I know exactly what you mean!" when nothing was described exactly.

I agree that this thread is frustratingly vague. I asked up the thread what cultural/racial 'faux pas' people are so worried about committing that they avoid friendships with people of other races, and all I got in return was someone who said a child in their child's class went to the teacher every time someone said 'black', even if it was about a pirate's hat, and someone who said that someone at her workplace had complained about a discussion of food being held during Ramadan, when it wasn't clear who had made the complaint.

But you didn't ask it in a spirit of genuinely wanting to know, so I'm not surprised that people didnt't respond. I don't fall into that category particularly myself, so I can't give you the specific examples. I can understand that they might not be very specific, and that people might just have general anxiety over it that is probably groundless, and that they might feel quite embarrassed by already. I can certainly understand them not wanting to admit that to answer a question that was asked in a way that had implied eye-rolls, with exaggerated language and mocking their feelings of not wanting to get things wrong. Yes, it might seem a ridiculous thing to feel that you could give offense and to worry about what you say to the point of not really getting to know someone from another culture as a result of it, but it's not going to improve the situation by making people feel stupid for it.

And how could anyone give specific examples anyway, as if they knew exactly what caused offense, they wouldn't do it. It's that vague fear of saying something wrong or insensitive or offensive without meaning to that worries some people. You hear people slated for using a phrase they didn't realise had a particular origin, or asking questions that reveal ignorance about history/religion/etc - it might show them up as uneducated or ignorant or whatever, and they get told 'how could you not have known that'. So they feel insecure, and more comfortable with things/people/culture that are more familiar. They might well be embarrassed by it or defensive, too, and it's a bit of a vicious circle.

Do you ever "bond" and have "familiarity" with any South Asian woman almost as soon as you meet them, OP?

Does this apply even if you have different religious or national backgrounds (such as if you're Bangladeshi & they are Pakistani heritage)? Or if you are Sikh and they are Muslim? Do you often or just ever get the quick "solidarity" and "sisterhood" with these other women from S.Asia easily but not with white British women?

What about black British women, or Chinese ones? do you find that bonding & familiarity with them is just as limited or just as easy to achieve?

I'm white but from another country and have been here 20 years. The vast majority of my friends have been non Brits. There is some cultural block I find with British people that makes it hard to connect. They're friendly but rigid and not totally welcoming if that makes sense? Everything is surrounded by rules, nothing is relaxed. The birtday parties that abruptly end on the dot, the formality of invitations....Hard to explain, but it's cultural differences I suppose.

.. I would be up for a convo about what is "sisterhood" or what is "solidarity". I perceive that people who post a lot online (like me) are misfits so we are the last people to easily achieve these things with anyone, ever.

I think it's less to do with skin colour and more to do with the vibe you give off. There are lots of white women who also feel alienated and struggle to make friends. You really have to put yourself out there and make lots of effort.

As an example. I was starting work in a research institute in January but joined their yearly retreat in November. We went abroad for a couple of days and had a great time. When I then started in January all the non British were really welcoming and acted as friends whereas the brits were really distant and acted as if they hadn't met me before. Actually I see this a lot. Until you've been formally introduced and really established a relationship they'll act like they don't know you. Maybe it's just with foreigners or maybe is with everyone, I don't know

Op.. .Really? Really? I can’t agree with you.

I think it's a fair point that us Brits can be very reserved and unfriendly. We are quick to point the finger at immigrant groups "not integrating" while not considering the possibility that they may have tried and been given the cold shoulder.

My Russian Grandfather arrived in 1921; married grannie who was White British; my German Jewish father arrived 1939; married mother.

They integrated. Ignored the twits. Made good friends. They were fundamentally interested in other people and made them feel good.

My upbringing was a bit more varied than my peers but it never made a jot of difference. Have I ever belonged- tbh probably always a bit of an island but that's just me. My grandfather and father always said being different meant you had to work harder to fit in. Most unkind comments are borne of ignorance so why bother with those people except to prove them wrong.

But you didn't ask it in a spirit of genuinely wanting to know, so I'm not surprised that people didnt't respond.

@Grumblyberries, have you been psychic for long?

Of course I genuinely want to know. It's come up over and over again on this thread as a reason for not feeling able to make friends with people of other races. The people who are saying this must surely have absorbed the idea from somewhere that cross-racial friendships are a minefield of sensitivities, and even if they are unable to be as specific as 'I'm terrified I will not recognise X in the playground because she wears niqab', or 'I don't understand the politics of black women's hair', they must have some idea of what kind of thing they're afraid will cause offence.

@askinfforfriend

I'm white but from another country and have been here 20 years. The vast majority of my friends have been non Brits. There is some cultural block I find with British people that makes it hard to connect. They're friendly but rigid and not totally welcoming if that makes sense? Everything is surrounded by rules, nothing is relaxed. The birtday parties that abruptly end on the dot, the formality of invitations....Hard to explain, but it's cultural differences I suppose.

I completely agree.