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Ethical dilemmas

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Original poster

Is saying ‘having a paddy’ racist?

212 replies

PanickyBrum1 · 09/07/2018 18:11

I’m a new parent who posted for the first time on mumsnet recently after having a very tired and at times unreasonable panic about things. Some of the things I wrote were not fair and I rightly got picked up on them and some things that the community attacked me about I would stand by. But one thing I’m genuinely not sure whether I should feel bad for was being condemned for using the phrase ‘having a paddy’.

To give context I was describing my own behaviour and although I’m half Irish by blood, the whole Irish thing hadn’t even occurred to me.

OP posts:
MsMamaNature · 09/07/2018 18:18

I wouldn't take offence - I'm from NI. However, if you called me a thick paddy that would be a whole other issue! Seriously, don't stress about it. Some people like to complain and find fault with everything just for the sake of it.

DramaAlpaca · 09/07/2018 18:21

I've only ever heard the phrase used in England, where I'm from. Never in Ireland, where I live. It's a phrase I would never use.

Phosphorus · 09/07/2018 18:28

It's not a phrase I would use, and it isn't in common use in Ireland (I spend a lot of time).

That tells you a lot I think.

It panders to the 'thick, volatile Irish' stereotype. Hmm

It's a very English construction.

duckfuckduck · 09/07/2018 18:29

I find the phrase offensive. I'm Irish born but live in England now.

ems137 · 09/07/2018 18:34

My dads family is all Irish and I've heard them all use the phrase before. I use it pretty regularly at the moment too with 2 toddlers Confused

PramCush · 09/07/2018 18:35

Yes, it's racist and offensive. I'm Irish.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 09/07/2018 18:36

I worked for an Irish organisation on the UK and it was a common enough expression (by the expats). Because it means having a silly tantrum rather than being thick /drunk /angry maybe that's why it wasn't queried. I don't even know if it actually has any Irish links anyway. I heard it could refer to Paddy fields in some way.

Neither was 'beyond the pale' which mumsnet has taught me is unacceptable (but my current Irish colleagues hadn't heard of it being offensive).

duckfuckduck · 09/07/2018 18:36

It's based on a lazy stereotype of the drunken Irish paddy who gets into fights.

Why not say "having a tantrum" instead?

Aghaidh · 09/07/2018 18:36

I’m Irish, and I hate it. Feels like cheap stereotyping to me

Undercoverbanana · 09/07/2018 18:40

It never occurred to me that this had anything to do with being Irish.

I thought it was from paddling. Someone stamping their feet and flapping their arms - like paddling in the sea.

My DD’s boyfriend is Irish. Shit. I hope I’ve never said it in front of him.

Lindah1 · 09/07/2018 18:41

I'm Irish living in England and like has been said before I've never heard it until I moved here, or in Scotland where I lived for a couple of years.
I genuinely don't think English people realise that it's not a nice thing to say, some of the nicest people have said it to me in conversation. I'm sure they are not aware of what I would assume to be the origins of the phrase ( hot headed etc.). I think it makes me sad in a way that it has developed into an everyday phrase. Then again I'm too chicken to pull people up on it there and then as I think they would be mortified, and so it continues. I tend to drop it into conversations about phrases i hate at another time.
So yes I do find it racist, makes me cringe when I hear it, but I know people don't mean it in a nasty way it's just become part of language which I guess is our own fault for not stamping it out.Confused

SamPotatoes · 09/07/2018 18:45

My Irish grandmother (from Cork) used it all the time when I was growing up usually about me-

ADastardlyThing · 09/07/2018 18:45

I'm half Irish and don't consider it offensive. As a pp said throw in thick and yea I'd probably be offended.

petrolpump28 · 09/07/2018 18:46

I'm possibly Irish. People want to be offended. How does this offence play out?

DrMantisToboggan · 09/07/2018 18:50

The OED makes it clear that it is derived from the derogatory term for an Irish person. Nothing to do with paddyfields.

pennycarbonara · 09/07/2018 18:57

Never heard that it was related before - interesting. I heard it used frequently by people in Northern England with Irish Catholic backgrounds. (Similar to what AsAProfessional was saying about Irish expats?)

I've never used it simply because I always heard it used in a belittling way that implied that nobody should mind whatever it was in the first place. I would prefer to say kicking off because rightly or wrongly I feel that separates the magnitude of the behaviour from the trigger more, for whatever reason.

AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight · 09/07/2018 19:00

What duckfuckduck said.

It's not just the stereotype that's problematic, it's the source - a British person saying it is echoing and reprising a long history of stereotyping, denigration and victim-blaming.

Original poster
PanickyBrum1 · 09/07/2018 19:04

All interesting answers and still can’t make my mind up....

Can’t help but giggle that the most offended person has the username duckfuckduck

I’d probably avoid saying it as it’s not a bother to say ‘having a tantrum’ instead but where do you draw the line....

OP posts:
Chocolatecoffeeaddict · 09/07/2018 19:05

No because Irish isn't a race.

Notevilstepmother · 09/07/2018 19:07

I honestly had no idea that was the origin, I just thought it was a dialect or slang word for tantrum. Apologies to anyone offended, I never knew.

duckfuckduck · 09/07/2018 19:08

How are you getting that I'm the most offended person?

Confused

I answered your question.

When there's a phrase that has racist connotations and might offend people, or another phrase for the same thing that doesn't have those connotations, which one should you use ....

One makes you look like a bit of a tit (once you know what it means) and one doesn't.

As to the word fuck in my username. It refers to the phrase in totality.
It comes from a friend who used to say it in a particular scenario and it makes me smile.

ProfessorMoody · 09/07/2018 19:15

I didn't have a clue it was related to the Irish. I'm Welsh and it's very similar to what we say, having a poody /pwdi so I just assumed it was the same.

My father is Irish and he says it, so he obviously isn't offended.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 09/07/2018 19:19

I’m Irish. I choose not to take offence where no offence is meant. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t try to inform you, politely, of things that might not be particularly nice things to say. Racist? No.

jaimebravo · 09/07/2018 19:21

I saw your original thread and was fairly surprised that people took offense to it and wouldn't let it drop even after your apology. It was obvious that you never intended to cause anyone any offense.
I am Irish, I personally don't find it bad, there are a lot worse i have heard used out there!

rotavixsucks · 09/07/2018 19:45

It's a phrase I use quite often, having grown up with it I've never even considered it could have a different connotation.

I'm now starting to question a lot of phrases I use...Confused