Is saying ‘having a paddy’ racist?

[PanickyBrum1]

I’m a new parent who posted for the first time on mumsnet recently after having a very tired and at times unreasonable panic about things. Some of the things I wrote were not fair and I rightly got picked up on them and some things that the community attacked me about I would stand by. But one thing I’m genuinely not sure whether I should feel bad for was being condemned for using the phrase ‘having a paddy’.

To give context I was describing my own behaviour and although I’m half Irish by blood, the whole Irish thing hadn’t even occurred to me.

duckfuckduck I do think that, I think that for some reason it’s open season on the Irish and Scots on here recently and the way it’s done is so sneaky that it skates within talk guidelines.

Matters fuck all to me, the intent is there and the nasty undertones are definitely not far from the surface.

Irish here and don't like it at all. I also find 'Irish twins' offensive but it seems to be accepted on MN.

I hate Irish twins as a phrase too. I also hate paddywagon.

I have kids less than a year apart and was horrified when they were referred to as Irish twins! Awful phrase.

Gosh, I've never made the connection between the phrase and Ireland

Saying someone is "having an absolute paddy/paddy fit" is a really common phrase where I live, to mean someone having a tantrum, nothing to do with them being drunk or thick/stupid or even Irish.

It's used in the same way as saying someone has "chucked their toys out of the pram".

Mumsnet was the first place I'd ever heard anyone even suggest that it has racist connotations. I'm not saying it isn't, just that I'd never really thought of it like that before!

I’ve always assumed the phrase is likely to be offensive and reject it.

But someone mentioned “beyond the pale” being unacceptable. There’s no evidence at all that that saying has anything to do with the Irish Pale (I assume that’s the ‘reason’ for the objection; it usually is). The connection is just folk etymology.

I'm Irish, still living in Ireland and have only heard it on Mumsnet.
Beyond the Pale I have heard used in Ireland. I never thought of it as racist but I suppose both could be looked on as looking down your nose at the poor, peasant Irish.

Frangipan but that’s exactly the stereotype that makes it offensive! The drunken Paddy who fights a lot and flies off the handle.

It is racist and offensive, and if it was used to describe Asian or Afro caribbean people it would not be tolerated

It’s a play on ‘hard of hearing’ which is derogatory and offensive. It was also a personal attack on me; as is accusing me of being misogynistic.

I also think it’s ironic that I started this thread, genuinely, to find out if I’d been offensive or just offended one person and yet the two of you have took it upon yourselves to attack me personally. Do you not think your crusading could be directed at people who wouldn’t even care if they had offended anyone?

It’s people like yourselves who fuel racism by being so over zealous about condemning what is offensive that you make people who don’t know what is right or wrong jump to the conclusion that their racism is ok and that you are just crazy.

Apparently the pale in the phrase beyond the pale means a fence, a territory controlled by England in Ireland.

I didn’t know that. Not a phrase I use right enough, but I didn’t know it was offensive.

Where’s that meme when you need it?

Soooo you use xenophobic phrases, argue back when you’re challenged and we fuel racism? (Its xenophobia btw not racism)

Oh and as an autistic woman I find your ridiculous whataboutery pretty fucking offensive when you’re trying to dig yourself out of a hole you got yourself into!

Deflection and denial are the tools of the ignorant.

It’s people like yourselves who fuel racism by being so over zealous about condemning what is offensive that you make people who don’t know what is right or wrong jump to the conclusion that their racism is ok and that you are just crazy

So someone is told their racism is wrong and they assume it’s not? Aye ok then.

Also, crazy? Pretty offensive.

Not doing so well tonight are you OP?

I don't use it but the first I heard it was from my Birmingham Irish friend.
Now I do quite like my late DGM's phrase which was "16 fits and conniptions". No idea what a conniption is, how you spell it, or why 16.

Okaaay.

Apparently the pale in the phrase beyond the pale means a fence, a territory controlled by England in Ireland.

The fence (palisade) connection is right. The association with the Irish Pale is made up!

www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html

I definitely argue back when challenged yes. I go out of my way to find out if the phrases I use are xenophobic (welcome to the thread)

Saying someone is "having an absolute paddy/paddy fit" is a really common phrase where I live, to mean someone having a tantrum, nothing to do with them being drunk or thick/stupid or even Irish.

@FrangipaniBlue yes it's used to mean tantrum but the word paddy is referring to an Irish person precisely because of a stereotype that Irish people are drunk/thick/have tantrums/can't control themselves or whatever. That's the whole point. Just because you didn't realise the link doesn't mean it's "nothing to do with them being Irish" and not offensive.

I've never heard it in Ireland. First time I ever heard it was on your original post. I was a bit surprised as I thought those kind of sayings were gone away but obviously not.

But when did I defend the use of racism?

There were a few 'Pales' though. I'd always associated it with the Russian one to enclose the Jews. Another good reason not to use the expression, I guess, but I think it just means beyond the safe, civilised area.

I definitely argue back when challenged yes. I go out of my way to find out if the phrases I use are xenophobic (welcome to the thread)

Oh you’re funny OP.

Can’t tell the difference between racism and xenophobia, can’t understand why people might be offended by offensive words, can’t understand where to draw the line.

And yet gets all uppity when challenged bringing up learning difficulties? (Being deaf isn’t a learning difficulty btw to reference your earlier post).

You carry on OP, doing what you do. Because you were always going to, weren’t you?