Is saying ‘having a paddy’ racist?

[PanickyBrum1]

I’m a new parent who posted for the first time on mumsnet recently after having a very tired and at times unreasonable panic about things. Some of the things I wrote were not fair and I rightly got picked up on them and some things that the community attacked me about I would stand by. But one thing I’m genuinely not sure whether I should feel bad for was being condemned for using the phrase ‘having a paddy’.

To give context I was describing my own behaviour and although I’m half Irish by blood, the whole Irish thing hadn’t even occurred to me.

[BlackLambAndGreyFalcon]

I thought that "beyond the pale" was to do with the pale of settlement for Jews in tsarist Russia. Most Jews had to live in the pale but some had special dispensation to live beyond the pale which was thought to be completely unacceptable to some non -jews. Or have I got that completely wrong? I didn't realise that there was an Irish connection as well!

[duckfuckduck]

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

[Somewhereovertheroad]

Neither was 'beyond the pale' which mumsnet has taught me is unacceptable (but my current Irish colleagues hadn't heard of it being offensive).

I think if you have any understanding of what the pale was it would be incredibly difficult to understand how you would fail to understand how offensive the phrase "beyond the pale" is. I suspect your colleagues were being polite.

[Plimmy]

The link that’s been posted is helpful in showing that the phrase does not refer to the Irish Pale.

It’s origins are in a purely figurative use to convey the idea of a boundary, not actually a demarcation of anything good or bad, which is a gradual shift of meaning.

[SadieHH]

I'd always associated beyond the pale with the Pale of Settlement too.

[JaneJeffer]

I don't like it.

I saw your thread when there was just a few posts but I didn't comment on it because of that.

There was another thread started today also using that word but again I just left it.

I don't think you or the other poster meant to cause offence but I think you should substitute a different word in future.

[DwangelaForever]

I'm from NI (although I don't identify as a paddy 😂) I wouldn't find it offensive but I can see why it is by people who do.

[PanickyBrum1]

You carry on OP, doing what you do. Because you were always going to, weren’t you?

Ummmm say what? Yes... I think??? You’ve completely lost me there.

[SoddingUnicorns]

OP we lost you a while back.

[PanickyBrum1]

I agree JaneJeffer

[FurryDogMother]

How do people feel about the very popular 'Paddywagon' tourist buses which I see a lot in Ireland (where I live)? Is that OK 'cos it's the Irish taking the mick piss out of themselves (or the tourists, works both ways!), or is it offensive? I'm a bit uncomfortable with it myself, but see some humour there, too.

[DwangelaForever]

@PanickyBrum1 I don't think the term paddy on its own is offensive it's "having a paddy" that can be seen as offensive.

Irish people have been oppressed in their own country for hundreds of years so to equate their struggle with someone having a tantrum is offensive.

[DwangelaForever]

@FurryDogMother sorry the below post should be directed at you

[JaneJeffer]

Furry I don't want to start a whole other war but it's like the n word. We can use it but anyone who's not Irish can't.

[AWomanIsAnAdultHumanFemale]

All interesting answers and still can’t make my mind up...

You can’t make your mind up about what?

[mollymcguire]

I'm Irish living in the UK and yes it's very offensive, stereotypes like that cause trouble innocently used or not,

[bookmum08]

I have heard and used the phrase 'having a paddy' my entire life (40+ years) but have never heard the concept that it's connected to the Irish slang of 'Paddy' and even now I don't think many people would think that. Lots of words have more than one meaning that have no connection to one another.

[DrMantisToboggan]

bookmum the OED is clear on the phrase’s etymology. It’s directly related to the derogatory name for Irish people.

[SemperIdem]

I’m Welsh,only ever lived in Wales. Have heard “having a paddy” many times in my 29 years.

It was MN that highlighted that the phrase can be offensive (I don’t know anyone who calls Irish/NI people “paddys” so it took a while to make the link). I’d rather not use it as a phrase than hurt someone’s feelings.

[Katgurl]

I'm irish. Ive never heard it used so presumably happens mainly in the UK. Yes I would consider it an offensive expression but would also assume the person may not mean it that way.

I think now it has been highlighted you should find a replacement expression.

[AWomanIsAnAdultHumanFemale]

I pointed out years ago on MN that I didn't like the phrase having a paddy and LaQueen decided, in her inimitable looking down her nose way that I was being offended for nothing.

I think I remember that makeit. That’s when all the PO shite started. LaQueen and her cheerleaders were skipping around calling anyone who blinked at them PO or po faced.

[WonderfulWorldBeautifulPeople]

There are lots of terms like this.

To feel 'jipped'
Don't be so 'uppity'
'No can do'
'Hooligan'
'Sold down the river'

The one that always gets me is when children sing 'eenie meenie minie mo, catch a tigger by it's toe'

There are so many phrases that are used as part of the English language that have quite sinister beginnings. I doubt that people would use them, should they know, and if I ever discover that a word has a hidden meaning that I didn't know about, I stop using it.

I agree that the phrase you refer to is offensive, however we must accept that people are often ignorant to its real meaning. You would be well within your rights to educate those in regards to what it means and why it can be upsetting, but I don't think you can justify getting upset every time the word is used. People don't always understand what they are saying.

I'm mixed race and would be rich if I had a pound for every time someone called me 'half caste' - I just don't let it bother me, unless it is meant in an offensive manner.

[PanickyBrum1]

I think almost everyone is in agreement that it’s a phrase that could cause offence and that it shouldn’t be used, so I’ll take that as my answer.

Playing devils advocate now but

If you were going to a fancy dress Eurovision party where everyone had to dress up as the stereotype of a random country, so pigtails for Swedes, leather shorts for Germany (let’s say picked from a hat) and you got Ireland, what would you wear? How could you guarantee that you weren’t offending someone? Or would you find the whole thing offensive and refuse? I’m which case are you not boring?

Imagine you are not Irish in this situation...,

Not defending the p word - asking a different hypothetical question now