Has dealing with elderly parents made you plan for old age?

[myislandhome]

We have just started the process of trying to place MIL in a nursing home, after deciding she is no longer safe at home. She has been difficult (as you would be), although she has resisted even at the stage where we were trying to make her home safer. Massive stigma/resistance about a bed downstairs or having cares in etc

This has really made me think about a few things

1. How it's so different to when her and FIL's parents were old, they just got placed in any old nursing home and that was it- you go where you get. Now we have done about 20 visits, are on waiting lists etc etc. But that's just an aside. Also, why didn't they think about this for themselves when they put their own parents in care and went through all that??
2. How I don't want this to be an issue for my kids when I get older

Although I am a fit and healthy 60 I've been thinking about this; how we will prepare ourselves for the future so our own kids don't have the constant fear and guilt that we will be at risk at home and not knowing when the "right time" is (sometimes until it's too late).

We live in a regular 3 bedroom semi and I would have absolutely no issue with putting a bedroom downstairs should the time come and if stairs are a danger (2 reception rooms helps). We have a downstairs loo but are considering putting in some kind of shower facility (not care home style, a nice one but that could work for us later as well).

I guess we are lucky that we have the internet (in laws in their 90s have never used it) and can order groceries etc.

I'd also consider downsized retirement living, although I totally understand people who want to stay in their own family homes. MIL has done this but it's like all of a sudden it's become too late to make her safe (she declined very quickly).

I do realise it would be a different kettle of fish if someone had dementia, I'm just talking about old age and frailty.

Anyway, I'm rambling but I guess I'm asking if the experiences everyone is having with elderly parents has made them consider their own futures and if you have started to make any contingency plans?

I'm sorry for your experience but it sounds as though you/your mother suffered from not understanding how things work in the Spanish system and from not having the right provision. My family are Spaniards and I've lost many elderly relatives and not one has had an experience remotely anything like this (well not since the 1940s). As I speak I have an elderly aunt in a residential facility and my cousins wife's father who has dementia is being cared for at home by a combination of family and carers. My grandmother and 2 aunts died in hospital and whilst there was plenty of family around, we did not provide nursing care.

Sending you much love ❤️

I cared for my mum at home and it nearly killed me. She would have hated what she became, and I fear for that so much, like you do. 💐

And am trying to declutter more, do strength exercises, etc. I make sure I never use a prop when I'm getting up after sitting or kneeling on the floor.

I fall down at POA and that side because I've no dependents or close family, and my executor is my second cousin. I don't want them burdened by what to do if something happens. That's an extra fear! And I really don't know what to do with regards that.

Thanks for your comments, but you are coming at this from the standpoint of the experiences of native Spanish residents. My DM has lived in Spain for 20 years and speaks fairly good Spanish but she is still seen as an outsider and treated accordingly. We have had plenty of input from local charities, care agencies and professional interpreters and they all agree that her experience is now pretty usual, certainly in the area she lives in. It’s a shame as attitudes seem to have changed drastically since she arrived. I now worry about the next time she needs hospital treatment and feel it is now time for her to move back to the UK.

It has really made me think. Mum has been disabled by chronic illnesses since her 40s and is now in a care home. She has been really easy to deal with throughout, it is just the sheer quantity of sudden additional illnesses and hospital visits that is a killer.

I don't have kids and husband older, so very conscious that I will be navigating this alone. I will put everything in place that I can and accept all help has to be bought in. What worries me is having the capacity to organise it and being able to cope with it. Old age isn't for the faint hearted!

My husband spent several weeks in a Spanish hospital, shortly after we moved there. The nurses did expect me to feed and wash him, but would help with lifting and turning. It seemed the job of the nurses
was medical treatment and giving drugs etc. I stayed with him all day and night. There was a notice saying that if there was no one to stay with the patient they would get someone in and the family would pay! I spoke Spanish fairly well which certainly helped in some situations! They were kind enough, but it was very stressful and exhausting for him and me, as I couldn’t sleep well. It may have changed since the noughties. Care homes were few and far between, very expensive and understandably didn’t cater for foreign residents. We returned to the U.K. while we were fit enough to sort it all out, and I’m glad we did.

Talking of decluttering there was a really interesting section on Swedish Death Cleaning on Radio 4 the other day.

I’ve mentioned this book on another thread, but Lionel Shriver’s book Should We Stay or Should We Go? is an interesting take on this issue. Without too many spoilers, after dealing with similar issues relating to their own parents, and based on long NHS careers, the protagonists make a pact to go together, at age 80, on the grounds that it’s all downhill from there.

the rest of the book deals with their alternative futures where one or both does not go through it. A couple of the scenarios stray into science fiction, some all too real. It’s been an interesting discussion point in our book group, from “would you take matters into your own hands”, if so, what would be the trigger - chronological age? Physical infirmity? Dementia or other capacity issues? A financial trigger? Or if leaving matters to their natural course, what endeavours and support would you put in place and when?

But I also take a lot of heart from a PP who reminded us to also live for today and not sacrifice it to worrying too much about the future, for which I truly thank you (sorry, I can’t remember which PP to tag)

I've just finished that @Defiantly41 - the audio version was very good.

Highly recommended. I nearly didn't finished at about chapter six thinking I knew it all but kept going, it's really good.

I loved that book @Defiantly41 Really thought-provoking - and quite funny in places.

No one should sacrifice their today to tomorrow. I would go further and say age 60plus can be a great age to do new things/change things etc. That's out plan anyway. It is pretty easy though at the same time as living your life to bear in mind that you will get older so maintain health/keep your affairs in order/make a will/make sure your home is accessible and do all these things before it becomes an emergency.

There was no point in MIL's life where it would have been a burden to sort out her deeds/titles/passwords. If she did find it burdensome she could have asked dh for help - it would have been an afternoon's work to put together a list of passwords, file the deeds to everything in one place, do a list of what is missing and get ahead of replacing them, contact a lawyer to sort out foreign property and taxes. It is now a bloody marathon involving 2 law firms and 2 accountants zoom calls and many affidavits. None of this is bothering her but it certainly is bothering her children.

My mum and dad have been quite organised, they’ve moved to a retirement flat as my mum’s mobility has declined. My father in law has done absolutely fuck all, and it appears to be a shock to him that old age came knocking. My red lines are he’s not moving in with us nor getting a penny piece out of us.

Yes, following this thread with interest. This is something I’ve started thinking about. I’m married to an only child, as am I. It does worries me, as although we have two adult children, neither live local. It’s not something I expected, so do want to be well prepared.

Sorry, meant to add my parents were zero prepared and quite honestly it’s been difficult and tiring. I don’t want to put my two kids through the same.

I can understand for many people being an only child can highlight or they feel the lack of family but I'm just curious as to what expectations people would have had on theoretical siblings and nephews/nieces when they were very elderly and needing support. Especially in this day and age.

I am close to my aunties and uncles and they all have children of their own, but if they didn't I'm not sure how much help I could be to them. Firstly like a LOT of families they all live 3-5 hours away. And secondly, even if they did live close by I have children, a job, parents and in-laws plus my own life to live who all take priority. I simply wouldn't have the time or energy to provide the support that a child might give their parent or provide the level of companionship to alleviate lonlieness of a lack of family. And this isn't through me being uncaring just simply as a person with limited resources.

And this ties up with people I meet who have nieces and nephews supporting them. It's very very basic what they can provide, certainly not what they would do for parents and they've made it clear this nor should they be expected to.

I don't mean this in any bad way as I'm just curious people have mentioned on here a few times also being an only child.

I should also caveat this by saying I don't think people should be relying on their children completely either nor is it a reason to have children and I've met plenty people who don't have children who are older and have had happy full lives!

There seems to be an obsession (not on this thread but wider on MN) of needing someone to’ take them to appointments’ assuming that the world/the decrepit NHS will continue always as now.
Either the NHS will modernize, or hopefully be replaced with a functional system using AI and remote access etc.

Some things will be able to be done remotely, but sometimes the doctors have to actually see the patients, listen to their chests, do MRIs, measure the size of swollen legs, manipulate backs, vaccinate arms etc etc.

Also it isn't just the physical taking, it is the being with them to support with whatever news they get, even if advocating and taking notes can be done over a video link.

That's true, although all of the aunties and uncles in my family who did not have children were close (both in terms of relationship and proximity) to their nieces and nephews and were supported very well. I guess even if they can't provide much support, it's a sense that there is still someone out there in the world that might care even a bit about you rather than just being entirely alone. I absolutely dread the day I become an 'elder orphan' and 'kinless'. It's my own fault really though - I should have had the foresight when I was younger to see that having children should have been my number one goal in life. Circumstances never really allowed though.

I hope you are right in that there is still at least some kind of future for me.

Not even 60 and bedbound. No intention of going anywhere. No kids so not going to be supported. Will happily end when I’ve had enough.

Exactly. I feel sick at the thought of the day I get a cancer diagnosis as an elderly person with no family. I can't even start to imagine how that will feel.

Of course you have a future? Why would you not? I know a few family friends in their 60s and 70s who don't have siblings and nieces and nephews and while I don't know what their fears are on older age and support, they certainly aren't living any miserable lives at the moment. One seems to be in a new country every month, we've had photos of him from Tokyo, Kenya on safari and all sorts of exotic places. Another one moved to a seaside resort with her husband because they had the freedom to do so. They've completely immersed themselves in their new community, have made heaps of friends and generally having their best life.

Life to most extent is what you make of it. If you're of the mindset it's going to be awful and lonely and nothing will save you then it probably will be. But that's down to the active choice you've made to view it that way, not down to a lack of family.

Yes people can derive happiness from family and children etc. But they can also create for people a massive source of sadness and pain. Furthermore no child should be brought into this world as some sort of solution to the problem of loneliness, or to solve a person's worry of old age or that they are responsible for their parents happiness.

No decent parent has children and thinks "that's me sorted for old age". It's one thing children providing some sort of support to parents but children (and siblings as I know you mention being an only child a lot) are their own people in their own right and a right to their own life. Just thinking children would solve all your problem, are responsible for your future happiness and loneliness is not only grossly unfair to them but would cause MASSIVE pressure on them. What if they wanted to move away but felt they couldn't because its been conditioned to them that they are entirely responsible for alleviating the fears and loneliness of their parent. No one should have to live with that pressure.

I do empathise with your fears but I do think counselling would be beneficial to you to help you untangle all your fears.

But you have a partner though? Why would you then be alone?

My dad had cancer and it was my mum who supported him to all his appointments and was there when he got the news. My dad said he couldn't have thought anything worse than his own children being there with him getting the news. Even though we're all well into our 30s and 40s, my dad still said for him he didn't want us being burdened with too much worry for him and him recieving the news before him actually processing it and us being there at the same time would have been too much for him.

Downsize, downsize, downsize, downsize!

Yes - I'm not wedded to staying in my forever home, We have a large second reception and bathroom downstairs if we have mobility issues and are willing to move closer to DD of we need a bit of help.
Lessons learned from my parents last years and DH's - us keep moving as much as possible and if mobility is an issue don't limit your world by refusing to use a wheelshair or other aid to get out and about

Even having a child/ren is no guarantee they'll be there for you. We have an only son. He's moved away to live/work in London. We're in the North West. We have no expectations of him at all other than an occasional weekend to come and visit us. We certainly don't expect him to come and "care" for whichever one of us is left. Even when we're both dead, I suspect he'll remotely get house clearance firm in to clear the house and remotely instruct an estate agent to deal with selling it. He simply doesn't/won't have the time off work to care for us or spend days/weeks clearing the house and disposing of our belongings.

Point well made. A retirement village is not a care home.

I don't think it is as straight forward as downsizing early.

It may have made sense for my parents when they were early retired, slowing down but still busy out seeing friends, playing golf etc, to have a smalller house and garden to take care of, but now in their 80s with with mobility problems making them more or less housebound, having a large house and garden gives them a far better quality of life than a small retirement flat would.

Yes, they need (a lot of) help, but they can move about the house, with room for mobility aids and hobbies (computers, crafts, plants) and can get out and potter in the garden. If they'd moved to a retirement flat, they'd be basically stuck in one room all day.