Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

I think we have the same parents!

@EmotionalBlackmail interestingly there’s a couple in mid to late 70s I often meet and chat to at a particular cafe here - they go in most mornings. She is always off to something interesting , still swims several times a week, does Pilates, is in great shape, and always has something to talk about - they have lived all over too, US, far east etc - and yes many years ago they sold their house and bought a great flat on the edge of town - love seeing them -

Sounds like you might have met my parents! (and to be fair, I'm very proud of them for it)

I know a wonderful older couple who I really admire for this. When they retired they downsized to a ground floor apartment in a lovely part of town, in very easy walking distance to shops, cafes, Dr surgery, activities that they enjoy etc. They have kept themselves active and happy by getting involved in loads of activities and have adjusted these as they have aged. Their children don't live nearby and when they see them they do interesting things that they all enjoy, often getting a train/plane to somewhere else to meet up and all have a break whilst they are still fit enough to do that. I have no doubt that when one of them passes, the other will keep on with activities and seeing local friends of various ages that they have made in these retirement years.
Whereas my parents refused to consider leaving their large, rather isolated, house and spent their retirement trying (and failing largely) refusing to join any sort of activities etc with the excuse that they were too busy with housework/gardening/doing errands for ungrateful family members. Visiting them almost always involved just sitting in their house and/or doing a list of jobs for them that they couldn't quite manage. Which is fine, but they would never consider taking up an invitation to go out somewhere/do something interesting because they always felt there was something more pressing to do.
Their health and mobility declined rather quickly and now DM is alone in a large house, unable to drive, with no public transport and nothing in walking distance. She has not made any new friends in the last 20 years and all her old friends have either died, live a long way away, or are unwell themselves. So she is entirely reliant on a small number of family members who are working and have their own lives to lead, so she spends too much time alone but is so entrenched in the habit of being 'too busy' that she still won't go to any social groups/days out.

It’s such an interesting thread. I’m increasingly thinking there are two sets of people. The proactive ones and the refusenik types. I’m being generous with the term refuseniks. We have to take responsibility for our own lives.

This is such a helpful thread. I've only recently started reading the elderly parents forum but with parents of 82 and 84 I suspect I'm going to become a regular visitor.

The comments on the thread have really made me think about how I will plan my own future. I'm 58, semi-retired and pretty active. A few people have said that they wouldn't want to move to retirement communities too early and be surrounded by much older people and I get that. I've been looking at groups such as U3A and all the photos in the online posts seem to feature people in their 70s. I don't mean any offence to people of that age, but I just don't feel they're right for me at the moment, just as I'd feel the same of a group made up of people in their 30s.

I totally agree with the boiling frog analysis. We don't suddenly wake up one morning and think 'I'm old now, I'd better make plans'. Instead we look at our own elderly parents, say I'll never be like that (looking at you DM!) and then proceed to behave exactly as they did.

I know my home - that I love - won't be suitable as I age. It's old with no downstairs toilet and needs ongoing maintenance. I've decided this morning that I will give myself 10 years and then move to somewhere more suitable. I'm going to tell my DD to start reminding me about this in 8 years' time!

@Winterbaubles welcome to the thread. I agree we don’t just wake up old and then say I’ll make plans. I understand your dilemma about moving somewhere that doesn’t feel quite right BUT the only way I could guarantee to my adult children that we were serious about not putting them through both the dramas old old age brings plus managing a big old house was to bite the bullet and move sooner. Best thing we ever did. Everything is brand new, we decluttered our big old place and I only have stuff that is useful or I love. We have little or no maintenance to do so have more free time. I’m not saying the future will all be rosy however I’m living somewhere that is future proofed for now that I chose rather than a crisis happening and having to move because I have to. I’m sure there will be some burdens on my kids however it won’t involve an unsuitable unmaintained house full of a lifetime of clutter like my parents have lumbered us with on top of managing them.

@Winterbaubles you need to gather up a few more people in your age bracket to go to U3A! It’s the only way to change the demographic! Or go in addition to doing other things!

I’m not quite there yet- it’s very much on my mind, but more in a managing retirement way.

I feel as though I need a house in between now and downsizing! I want a home with lots of space and land to do gardening and craft. But then I will have to downsize! My mental solution has been, a downstairs that’s convertible to include a bedroom and shower room, if needed.

I think the next house will have to be a compromise, whatever.

@BlueLegume that's interesting to hear and very forward thinking. My added issue is that I have a long term partner but we don't live together. At some point we will need to decide if this is a permanent arrangement or if we will live together in which case we'd look for a new place together.

@PrizedPickledPopcorn I totally get what you're saying. I feel like I'd ideally like another good 20 years to get my gardening skills improved, therefore that would limit options if downsizing!

@PrizedPickledPopcorn @Winterbaubles I don’t know your ages but I am headed towards mid sixties. My parents could live another 20 years. I will be mid eighties then. Of course leaving my lovely family home of over 30 years was a massive decision BUT I will not put my own kids through what my parents have. It broke me. It will break me again when I have to empty the utter mess they have hoarded albeit not so much in the house. We have to make decisions as we age - it is simply taking responsibility for ourselves. The way I see my parents is when everything was ok they just had a really fun time, laughed and mocked at those people who weren’t as ‘gorgeous looking’ as they considered themselves. Chips down - absolutely zero coping skills.

There will always be a compromise but if you are proactive there will be a place suitable for this phase of life - we found it.

@Winterbaubles gardening wise we have a communal garden with allotted spaces to cultivate. There is also a local community garden and allotments.

Just thought I would update the thread with a comment from my father - he is in a nursing facility, his 3rd year - this comment blindsided me this weekend.

Turned up for my weekly visit, this time accompanied by my DH. The reason for this is that the previous 2 visits when I have been alone my father has made comments about how disappointed he is in me and the fact I haven’t moved back to be near my mother. I’ve lived about an hour away from them for coming up 40 years. I explained then that I live with my DH in (name of town) and clear as day he replied ‘ I know you do Blue I’m not senile (his word not mine) - you need to look after your mother now though and things have never been good with you and (DH name)’

My marriage is good and always has been. It has in fact kept me sane.

Anyway I arrived with DH this weekend to be told by my father he needs me to move back to be near him and my mother because and I quote “it’s what we want. It might be selfish but you have had your fun with (DH name) and we need you back here to support us”

Now I will say my parents have been very difficult my whole life and I have tried to muddle along but honestly it knocked me sideways. He is unwell BUT there are snippets of his old self and this was certainly an example.

Sympathy to everyone with this awful time of life.

What a nasty sod your F is @BlueLegume. Mine may be demanding and intransigent due to dementia, but at least I know that their conscious rational brains recognised that we have our own lives and would be horrified by the actual situation.

Thanks @rookiemere the staff and even my own head told me to ignore him/doesn’t know what he is saying/blah blah blah BUT and it is a big BUT this is Dad as he has been in life. Little asides to guilt trip me. ‘Taking me aside’ for over 60 years to persuade me to do things the way that works for them using the ‘oh Blue you know what your Mum is like, just do xyz and she will be happy’. And I did because if I didn’t the backlash was awful or they would blank me for ages.

I did say as gently as possible to him that I cannot do that as I have my own life and thought he may acquiesce and agree but he didn’t. He reiterated he knows he is being selfish but he thinks it is the right thing for me to do.

Now sensible Blue head on I can brush it off as his illness/age/fear/frustration/regret etc etc however his words and actions and response took me right back to being a kid and young person living under their roof. Never quite able to settle without their judgements-or what they described not as judgement but the fact they have/had ‘high expectations’. Completely unreasonable ones I would add.

Coming here is a safe place to be sad so thank you.

I am so sorry that’s bloody awful of him

practice certain phrases like. That won’t be happening dad and just shut him down. If he is disrespectful to your DH ‘how dare you we are very happy and have our own life’ and leave.

in the meantime go and do something nice tonight with DH. For me it’s a cold swim that settles my head after a spat (full blown argument) with mum.

Can you visit less often @BlueLegume? Weekly is a lot to go through that.
Regardless of what age we are, there is I think always a tiny part of us seeking our DPs approval no matter how unreasonable or unpleasant they are as parents.
Many people don’t go through the torture of elderly incapable DPs and don’t understand why we aren’t all loving and grateful for the extra time with them. I feel so envious of them these days. DH is doing the majority of trips to mine as I literally cannot cope with it , so I have another bad daughter badge to berate myself with. In hour circumstances where your F is cared for and comfortable I must admit, I wouldn’t be going weekly.

thanks @rookiemere it is an odd situation because I have got to know the staff so well I guess I put pressure on myself to ‘show up’ weekly. Definitely having a space before the next visit and hopefully he’ll have forgotten. He never asks about my adult children or their families. They are at the other end of the country and one is overseas. I tell him about them but he never shows interest, never really has TBH.

You are spot on about some of us seeking approval. I have done this my whole life but all it has done is enable them to keep moving the goalposts of expectation and standards. It sounds like you are doing a sensible thing keeping a distance. It takes days for me to fully recover. I have said it on other threads, we should not be surprised when our elderly display their lifelong personality traits in old age. This notion that they are lovely sweet old people is utterly ridiculous. Yes some are I know.

You could always reverse this and have the conversation go like "Well, father, you and mum have had a good life and it's really time you move closer to me, so that if you need looking after, it's much more manageable for me and my lovely DH. I'm sure you want me to remain healthy and sane."

My DM has been known to say it's pointless having DC if they move away and don't help, when I've planned my entire life about rescuing her as her lack of planning isn't working out too well.

I had similar. "D" m kept dropping in hints about me covering for carers and helping with DF's care which I 100% was not doing, ever. Id been a carer one summer and absolutely no way did I want to do care for my DF - in fact, the experience made me realise how completely unsafe it would be to do lifting, washing etc with no-one else capable present.

Mum once phoned me and told me that "I MUST be DF's carer now." I was a bit staggered so mumbled okay and got off the phone. I was really upset and in tears for the rest of the evening and DH pointed out it was all bollocks and not happening.

When I called her back the next day and said I wasn't going to be a carer she pretended the phone call the previous evening hadn't happened, I was really shocked and didn't pull her up because I'd been expecting an argument.

Then a few weeks later she started dropping hints again. It ended up just making me really angry which to an extent I still am - who the fuck are these people, that constantly put themselves first when they had their own resources, to think their own wants matter more than my kids, my husband, my household, my finances?

Mercifully my Dad was too ill to start parroting my Mum although I'm sure she had a good go at priming him.

Are you still talking to your Mum? I'd definitely cut back on the visits for a bit until you feel mentally in a better place. It's so hard to describe but the constant demands drove me into the ground.

Oh that’s really difficult Blue. This process for you has been so painful.
I agree that just ignoring it and refusing to engage on that topic is the only way. I find it sad (not being involved) that he’s unable to say ‘I wish I saw more of you,’ it’s all framed as being for your mother, and as a failure on your part as well, instead of being happy to see you. The idea that your own family is ‘a bit of fun’ to them, and they are the real part of your lives… it’s so limited and selfish - which he acknowledges on the surface I suppose.

I still roll my eyes at the "You'll be sorry you didn't spend more time with them when they DIE" posts. Folk have no idea!

I should add my youngest was at nursery then just starting school at the time.🙄

My brother in law told me this a few weeks ago about my mother. He spent no time at all with my MIL ( his mother) and yet saw fit to pontificate to me, who is doing all admin, shopping, myriad of hospital appointments, helping with gardening and cleaning, along with visiting, phone calls etc for my mother. I've been assisting with many things since my dad died over 30 years ago. No wonder I have multiple chronic illnesses, none of which she ever asks about/ acknowledges.

@HoraceGoesBonkers there does seem to be a cohort of people who think what they ‘want’ matters more than anything. The daft thing over many years is when we have suggested various things to make life better/more bearable etc they have both just said ‘we don’t want that’. Think along the lines of me saying ‘did you catch such a such a game on the TV last weekend Dad?’ Immediately responded by my mother ‘there’s no point him watching he can’t see the TV’.

No he can’t because it is the smallest TV known to man. Suggest buying them a bigger smart TV to which Dad lit up…..immediately shot down by mother ‘we don’t want a big monstrosity in our lounge’. Dad then obviously had to agree with her. That is a small example of their attitude. Add in refusal to add a downstairs bathroom/refusal to have a gardener - huge gardens/refusal to have a cleaner - I organised one and my mother accused her of stealing/being useless etc/ refusal to get a car that was not a massive 4x4 they could no handle/ refusal to accept a man with a terminal illness (PD) would struggle on a three week walking holiday in the Alps - I kid you not.

In addition utter refusal to entertain themselves in their local quite thriving town. All suggestions of going out for lunch met with ‘everywhere is rubbish’.

With regards to my mother I am ‘in contact’ but not wasting anymore time trying to support her. She moves the goalposts too much. For example - curate a lovely shopping delivery of Waitrose treats etc. tells me everything was ‘off or on the turn’. So for the next month or so I took the food myself as my brother said the delivery was ‘too impersonal and she wants your company Blue’. doing that means doing the shop then driving over with it - an hour, unpacking it to prove it is in date and safe to eat then driving home - another hour. So at a minimum 3 hours of a day. And all she does is moan. Yet does nothing to help herself. Will not read a book, anything at all.

Tells me all her appliances only work when I am in the house - a mean ploy to suck me in. I have stepped right away for that reason. Sadly one of my siblings has now painted me as the uncaring villain.

He forgets I have had a lifetime of their demands and ridiculous standards. Thanks all you are all so patient and kind.

@BlueLegume that sounds awful. I agree about still seeking approval ;I wait for a kind word or some acknowledgement, but it never comes. That's just how she is, with nothing kind to say about anyone. Making up vicious things about neighbours etc.
It takes me ages to get over a visit. I have, before now, sat in the car and screamed loudly afterwards. Anyone would think I'd have learned by now that she will never change ( I'm in my 60s).