Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

Yes it was the online shop that set me over the edge @BlueLegume.

DF no longer allowed to drive which is obviously the right and responsible thing to happen. Weekly shop to be arranged to come when cleaner is there, they miraculously agreed to extending her hours so she has time to help DF unpack. Except somehow it turned into WW3.

Housebound DM creates a list that a family of four would struggle to eat in a week, never mind a couple of geriatrics with poor appetites. As she is no longer able to get to the outdoor freezer she refuses to accept it’s already stuffed to the gills with gluten free loaves, fishcakes and the myriad of other things on her list ( plus also random items like philadelphia and occasionally Cif as DF unable to figure out where things should be). DF on the other hand is overwhelmed by the food in the fridge and thinks they need nothing- other than his special things that DM has deliberately not put on the list, but no when quizzed he can’t remember what any of these are, other than DM is deliberately withholding their purchase. Oh and he also likes an outing to the shops when DH or I visit so will make up some new items that he must have .

They then shout at each other for a while about it with DM remonstrating that I must buy everything on the list or I will have let her down. Last time I had to do this I ended up leaving the house sobbing in front of one of the carers. So all good fun.

The social worker gave me the option of putting them onto Wiltshire meals and my goodness it was tempting, but I knew they had tried them before and didn’t like them. Thankfully DH has taken over the weekly shop and takes less lip from them although I have no idea what state the festering fridge is likely to be in ( carers and cleaner both meant to check for and throw away out of date food, but tend not to bother).

Sorry @BlueLegume not terribly pertinent to your thread, but it’s amazing how something as innocuous as shopping becomes such a minefield, and how I have had to step away from it in order to preserve what’s left of my own sanity.

@rookiemere totally pertinent to the thread - two worlds colliding for your perfect storm too. It’s all manipulation. 💐

I’m so sorry for those of you that have always had difficult parents in this situation. It has been bad enough managing DM’s needs when the worst I could accuse her of is burying her head in the sand and being over optimistic in doing no planning once dad died. The rest I think is the inevitable consequence of age/dementia.

The more I read this board the more I am eternally grateful that my parents were fundamentally reasonable, considerate people. They had their moments like all of us, and dad could be a stubborn bugger. I recall once when I was young, mum commented on someone she knew that “she’d be sorry she didn’t have children when she’s old” which I don’t remember reacting to, but I obviously thought it was noteworthy enough to remember! However, mum’s own mother expected mum to do everything for her once she was widowed (at a younger age than I am now and in full health!). Such as shopping, laundry, cleaning, gardening. You will all know what that became like when grandma became infirm and her cognition declined. And since that point mum never ever said a word about expecting DB and I to care for them.

@BlueLegume I think to be fair to my DPs their behaviour is caused by their dementia, and their minds are only able to work on a very basic level which doesn’t include understanding or trying to reduce the emotional impact on me.

I will be relieved once they are both in a home and will definitely be cutting back on the visits when I can, or maybe it won’t be so bad once it’s just visiting rather than running two households badly. It’s quite funny in a way that you’re visiting your DF weekly because you don’t want to let the nursing home staff down or have them think badly of you, I definitely worry about what people think of me. I know the cleaner thinks I should move in with them, because she did and then subsequently had a nervous breakdown and couldn’t work for a year when her DF died.

Its really hard to remember that I am a kind and decent person, but I just can’t cope with the demands of two stubborn DPs with dementia.

I think there are a few things that no one likes to admit - I do feel a lot of much older couples can’t actually stand each other but got past the point were divorcing seemed a viable or easy option and often there isa power disadvantage too whereby one person always speaks for the other - hence a lot of ‘we’ don’t want/dont like etc -and the other person not wanting disagreements simply doesn’t speak up - there are I think a lot of unhappy elderly couples about - and it’s not all health, weariness etc - quite often they realise ‘this is what I’m stuck with now’

@Crikeyalmighty wholeheartedly agree.
About 8 years ago having listened to my mother constantly complaining about Dad and his inability to run around doing stuff I suggested they apply for AA. Obviously doing the admin side of it was far too challenging so they enlisted me. They wouldn’t let me do it over the phone with them they demanded I go to their house. So again an hour journey.
The vindictive comments my mother made about my father - she insisted they were included - were vile. Really personal comments. I won’t go into detail but it included information about intimacy. All said in front of him.
I used to joke that they should have divorced in the 1970s. The joke seems hollow now.
Sadly the “sanctity of marriage “ my mother has rammed down our throats for years clearly only covered the nice bits.🙄

Maybe you should throw the quote back about the sanctity of marriage next time F suggests you abandon your DH to look after them.

The tiny TV made me laugh.
The in-laws have always had delusions of grandeur, which although snobby I was happy to let them be them.
In the 'drawing room' they have the world's tiniest telly. The sofa, bought second hand 25 years ago, is now even lower to the ground. A low chair piled high with random cushions because no one can get out of it without the core strength of a pilates instructor. An open fire which they huddle around for warmth and blame childhood asthma for their chest problems.

I suggested they look at maybe a new chair, the horrer! Next thing it would look like an old folks home rather than sophisticated, imaginary place in their heads.
The place actually smells of damp, stale urine with a top note of lilies. It's uncomfortable for living a slowed down, aged life. TV too small, fire to complicated when you are tired, generating so much dust. Cluttered with tiny tables, rugs and a weird dining table to squeeze past. Trip hazards and no space for a walking frame.

Mil has always been snobby about everything so when she asked if we had an air- fryer, I did say no, that I always felt they were a bit council estate and we don't eat a lot of that food.
It was a tiny pay back for decades of judgy, Mitford style snobbery. They will sadly find life so much more complicated and hard then it needs to be.

@OldTime absolute slam dunk re the air fryer. You are so right about delusions of grandeur. My mother has had a three piece suite for 30 plus years. It’s tired and she wanted it recovered about ten years ago. When she got the quote I said she could buy a new and better one for the price. She’d admired one I’d recently bought but recoiled in horror when I told her it was from DFS. Her response was well it’ll fall apart in months.

Oh yes things you’ve omitted to tell your elderly parents because it’s just not worth the hassle is a an entire thread in itself.

@Billybagpuss not quite sure what you mean but in the spirit of this being a safe space to vent I’ll give you an example of not telling my parents I’ve had two major operations in the past five years all whilst trying to help them. I didn’t bother to tell them because they would not care. As long as I was there for them at the drop of a hat they just don’t care about my health. I’ve been on my knees and my father has been more bothered about me not looking “as smart as you should “. On that occasion I’d literally been given the all clear to drive after surgery a few weeks earlier. I felt shockingly bad but I still showed up, visited him and did a good shop and washing for my mother with nothing wrong with her other than learned helplessness.

@BlueLegume we have a very elderly relative (89) who sees himself as superior. Reads the Telegraph, has only ever been abroad twice when younger , has a broker on hotline, refuses to do any banking issues online at all - lives in a grotty council studio flat in a really grim area and is close to a millionaire, always talking about share prices etc, has no TV, speaks extremely posh - and actually has none to leave his money too apart from almost as elderly brother , never married - but yes he definitely has some kind of superiority ‘air’ about him - it’s totally bizzare - one set of my grandparents too were this way - definitely of the ‘oh we aren’t that sort of people’ my grandmother was very fond of the royal ‘we’ despite not having done a tap of paid work since she got married at 22

That’s truly awful - so many people become incredibly self centred . A lot of young people are too but you kind of expect it, you would think with age they would realise others have lives to lead and worries that don’t involve them - but no . I am actually very lucky ( touching wood) my father in law at 86 is on his own but well and very self sufficient, doesnt have a carer or even a cleaner or gardener , does have his ironing done and that’s the extent of it - can’t do enough to help you or his grandchildren so long as it only involves him throwing money at an issue and will always buy in help if needed. Consequently i love him to bits and enjoy his company

Exactly what the meant, I have a month old dgd she had a small procedure last week, nothing serious at all but no way would I tell my mum as she would stress, fret complain that it shouldn’t be happening. And in the much more serious situation you were in, no way would I have mentioned it to mine either. I would not have been her primary concern.

so sorry you had to deal.

Thank you @BlueLegume I have found “some” of my people you & others help me feel i am not alone

@Billybagpuss ah good I understand now. Sometimes on these threads we get disrupters suggesting we cannot be bothered with our parents or elderly relatives. Sorry if I misunderstood. Hope your dgd is doing ok?

My adult son was taken unwell a few years ago and all my mother could say was ‘right’. He is fine now but she really had zero interest. The irony being we have all been dragged into every damn medical thing in their lives from verrucas, to eye tests to dental issues - all things the rest of crack on with. But with mine it had to be a full blown word for word recount of the appointment/outcome etc etc.

@Freeme31 💐

Totally sympathise with all of you with self centred elderly parents and the delusions of grandeur. My parents always knew better than anyone else and had some odd things they felt they were too good for. Even when they were quite young they considered up to date entertainment tech to be very low brow and frivolous (we were the last people I knew to get a video player) and considered it very common to have the TV on unless you specifically tune in for a particular programme. So even when they were both retired and not fit enough to do much they refused to watch TV in the evenings unless there was something they'd seen in the TV times and planned to watch. Even though they eventually had to get a TV that had on demand TV as an option they refused to use it, as they don't want to be the sort of people who watch endless TV. Instead they would sit all evening talking about their ailments, medication and the neighbours. Now that DM is alone she still won't watch TV in the evening other than Coronation Street, but will call me and complain she's bored. We have set up TV with a watch list of programmes and films she will like but she refuses to watch them because she's 'too busy'.
The combination of refusal to do anything to entertain herself, and lack of consideration for anyone else, means she calls me every evening (even if I have been with her all day) and wants to talk at great length about her medication and when her next appointment is. If I don't tell her I have to leave she will give me a blow by blow account of when she took each pill today (including where she was, what she was thinking about, changing her mind because maybe it was before I thought I might have a cup of tea later, or did I think about tea first?), what each one is for, what the dosage is, what dosage her other family members take, what the 'rules' are for each one (she reads the instructions repeatedly), when the next prescription is due, when she had the last one etc etc. If I tell her I have to go she asks when I will have time to speak to her then, even if I've been with her all day and already spoken to her for ages. A few weeks ago, both my DC had a sickness bug and I told her I had to go because one of them was throwing up and calling for my help. Her response? 'Oh yes, you don't tell them to wait and come running when I don't feel well do you? You'd be happy for me to just curl up and die.'

@BlueLegume
Ah the TV!

My dad swears that he could live without a TV… he doesn’t watch it, it’s absolute nonsense and they only have one because my mother likes to watch mindless rubbish. He likes to think he is far more righteous and sophisticated than he actually is.

When caught off guard he will be overheard talking about the cricket score or the latest Yellowstone episode. He knows a lot for someone who is above being a slave to the TV…

The in-laws are coming in a fortnight and it's panic stations here.
DH is convinced it might be their last trip, understandable they are 89 and 87 are have aged rapidly in 18 months. It requires a full team of siblings to drive and host and reorganise for stops along the way.
The full range of grand children are hitting a-levels, mocks, uni dissertation, so February is actually timed for maximum inconvenience plus the stress of none of us living in particularly warm houses. And we've just seen each other at Xmas.
Growing old is a bugger, I vow to remember just how complicated work and leave and juggling everything is if I reach that stage.
Suddenly loads of odd jobs we have lived happily with for years are being prioritised. So I am trying to see the positive.
I will need to hide my air fryer, the fish fingers and continue to not mention I grew up on a council estate.

Oh this was me 10yrs ago, and unfortunately it’s all gone downhill! Now with dementia, DM is even more difficult and has distanced herself from everyone/ everything so her world is now extremely small. Struggling with finding the right care options as she has no insight/ doesn’t want to see how much she needs support/ relies on me and DSis and I really can’t give any more.

I read this the other day - just like you are saying - experteditor.com.au/blog/k-bt-i-watched-my-boomer-parents-grow-lonelier-after-retiring-because-they-never-built-a-life-outside-work-here-are-7-things-im-doing-differently/experteditor.com.au/blog/k-bt-i-watched-my-boomer-parents-grow-lonelier-after-retiring-because-they-never-built-a-life-outside-work-here-are-7-things-im-doing-differently/

@legoanddogtoys absolutely perfect description of my situation. Self centredness is something I consider a lot BUT I also think the loneliness, often self inflicted having alienated others, leads to the craving for attention and monologues about things the rest of us just get on with simply to get attention.

I will add, to counter my own moaning, I think the world has moved so fast in the past few decades that due to lots of technology coming in during their retirement years they have got a little lost along the way.

Really interesting to see others experiences. My dad moved in to assisted living as his knees had gone. Clearing that house in a short space time when the place became available was crazy. He didn’t want to part with anything. wires, empty boxes, out of date food. He wasn’t even that old 71. We really stressed him out but it was tough we were all working fulltime too.

Im so so glad he is there though he has much better quality of life. He does need more help as his knees are fucked but it’s so much easier in a new build flat with less clutter and he also has more social life then for a long time. Even though he didn’t want a flat.

It does resonate though how easily the roles have switched. Luckily he isn’t too stubborn or too awkward atm but it is defo there in some degree sometimes.

Its funny reading this because as a childfree couple we always get the line well who will look out for you, look after you blah blah. Well i wouldn’t want the stories im reading even if i did: so i prepare. We are keeping ourselves fit and active in our forties and beyond including our minds. The house will be older person ready by time we retire aith no major works needed and if needed we can move/downsize. We will have saved money for care etc: No one knows what their old age will look like so we should be prepared.

@Infracat sorry the link does not work. However just the wording in the link you posted nails it. My father worked 9-5 in the local town. He left the house at 8.45 and was home for evening meal at 5.15. On the dot. They went to church on Sundays but never involved themselves with wider things at the church. Much better to leave church and bitch about what Mrs so and so was wearing and how scruffy the family with 6 kids are. Said family being the kindest people ever with lovely happy children - I was friends with them and know they were happy as their home was always so welcoming, always full of laughter and a pan of something on the stovetop.

If I am brutally honest my parents only real hobby was shopping. Wardrobes full of high end high fashion. Not a bookshelf in the house. Support to everyone in this situation. It should not be our responsibility to make other people happy.

@BlueLegume yes technology is moving forward at a startling rate. I do get frustrated with some relatives in their 60s who still communicate by email and refuse to embrace more modern methods (even Facebook messenger which is hardly cutting edge) and are apparently unable to sort out esims when they come over here ( too difficult to understand apparently, is easier to make me their mode of communication). They act like little old ladies when they are far from that age and are intelligent, capable people.

I feel we really need to stay on top of these things to be able to communicate and function in todays world, otherwise we will be completely
lost once we get into our 70s/80s. I mean we may be anyway due to health issues, but we shouldn’t make ourselves a barrier when it’s within our gift to keep up to date with technology.

Apart from Instagram - I did join it but can’t make head nor tail of it, work of the devil.