Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

I know what pp mean about extreme old age. My DF sounds a bit like yours @Crikeyalmighty but ten years ago. In his 80s he was walking up and down the hill to shops every day for the paper and doing all the shopping and still driving. He was always a runner, ran marathons in his 50s, very healthy diet, never drank or smoked. Somewhere in his 90s he just got very frail. He never learned to put muscle on or to maintain it (and you might say, well he’s in his 90s!) but now everything is a struggle because he is just so weak. He is still mobile with a stick but prone to wobbling and falls. TBH he has just lived too long. He has a pacemaker for atrial fibrillation and if he had t had that I think he would have keeled over a decade ago, and that would have been appropriate.

If I’m honest I was horrified when my DF had a pacemaker at maybe 86. He had a further two years afterwards and of course it’s not my call, but I would have said 86 was old enough. He was much more frail after that.

This has been a great thread. Lots of us in a similar position ultimately with very elderly but often stubborn parents. I’ve read a couple of books over the past few years about dying and they really helped me put it in perspective. As a PP stated we will all die.

My own father has lived probably 10 years than he should have. My mother has made a project out of getting any ailments medicalised and medicated. It’s like tinkering with an old car. It might be ok for a bit but then something else breaks. I suspect if you asked my father if he’d like to come off his cocktail of medicine he’d say yes. He has no quality of life he’s simply existing. However over the years medics have explained to him they are not able to guarantee he will improve on various medications but my mother had the final say insisting “we at least give it a go”.

I also like the point about learning to enjoy your own company. Society has changed but someone like my parents wouldn’t have mixed anyway-far too superior to attend social activities.

OP, this is such an interesting thread. Thank you for starting it! So much of what you write about your parents resonates with me. My own parents were farmers, lived in the same community they were born in and remained active until they pretty much fell over. They also had a social life, Church and a lot of extended family around them.

PILs on the other hand had very much the same attitude that you mention. They were professionals and lived in a very nice middle-class neighbourhood although FIL was made redundant several times during his career so their house moves, holidays and car changes somewhat stalled and certainly MIL always felt that she was living below her station. They were very fussy about friendships, found fault with people a lot (in their nice middle-class neighbourhood – we're not talking an inner-city ghetto or anything) and ended up with a very diminished social circle. I remember when they were probably in their 70s it felt as if their world had shrunk so much that they would tell us in all seriousness that they had a very busy day if, for example, one of them was going to the dentist and they were having a plumber call.

I was actually speaking about this with friends the other night, and we all agreed that as we age we absolutely get tired more easily, there's probably some cognitive decline and we will all end up exhibiting some of the behaviours that we despair of in our parents generation, but I honestly can't see that DH and I would ever turn into them. We are now in our 60s, trying to remain open to new experiences and people, staying fit and active and considering it a privilege rather than a hassle to host guests, have a full calendar, drive an hour to see a theatre show or whatever.

I'm going to take some time to read back over more of these posts.

I think this is so true- you kind of reap what you sow- and if you become very insular either alone or as a couple , that will get worse unless you make some big changes - this really won’t bother some people but don’t get shirty about it if your family don’t want or cannot take up the gaps in care/social life.

Yes I get that - I do realise at some point FIL will probably get a lot more frail if he stays around , which I think is why he’s future proofed, partly to avoid care homes if he can

For some people old age has become very medicalised and some folk end up going on for ages with no cognition, motor skills, life enjoyment. That's a relatively new problem.

@BlueLegume we had this too. Ultimately there is no medication that Dad could have got to help him overall, but he was on lots of things that were keeping him going a bit longer. It added up to a very long 4.5 years of life after he lost mobility, continence and a lot of cognitive ability. This for someone who used to regularly lecture us about how he'd rather poison himself than end up in a home.

I do think the points about community are really important - my ore mentioned FIL has joined the over 60 friendship club in his town - twice a week for 5 hours, warm nice hall, 2 course ( good) lunch for a tenner , bar, coffees , raffle, quiz, day trips out , mix of ages over 60 and sexes and new people to chat to - he’s enjoying it ! Not sure who funds it , but it’s a fab initiative.

This is so true. I think it still holds for the small number of people in th UK who are still church goers. My mother had a wide group of women from church who did all that. When she declined the ones that were left visited and gave company. The Baptist church around the corner were amazing even though it wasn't her church.
I have been looking for ways to volunteer to do something similar, I'm not a church goer.

As to loneliness and cognitive decline. DH is 76 and would happily be a hermit. His brain has always been busy and active. He came home this morning and told me that on his walk he had been trying to calculate whether you could deal a unique hand of poker to the entire population. It turns out you can't but you could if you used 6 cards. He'll be fine on his own, me not so much.

I am in my late 30s, and for the last couple of years I have been making a real effort to build meaningful friendships with people I'd like to be friends with into my older years. Not of course with the idea that they'll act as 'carers' or anything like that, but just to have a social network and not be totally isolated.

Someone on another thread told me I was 'creepy' for doing this. 🙁

Along with the breakdown in community social systems there are probably a large number of elders who like their parents before them were led to believe that children would want to look after their parents and it was expected of them to do so. They have been let down by the shift in society from a community system to an individual first system and are probably a bit angry or confused as to what has gone wrong. Many of us grew up with behaviors from our parents that only now in adulthood are we being told are not acceptable and perhaps that’s the pushback? Parenting has changed as well as the responsibility of the younger generation to the older generation.

Why on earth did you pander to your mum by changing supermarket just because the delivery driver was scruffy? That looks like an overreaction on your part.

@Forthelov Because at the time I wanted to help and my father was still at home at this point. Please remember I have had over 60 years navigating my mother’s behaviour. Sometimes it might seem to an outsider that it is easy to say no but when you are manipulated to make them seem like you are being horrible you get sucked in. I have stepped right back now.

I am so glad my DM did this (serendipitously as a result of her community activities) as now in her 90s neither she not her remaining (very few) contemporaries can travel to visit each other , but her "younger" friends in their 70s and 80s still go to see her from time to time.

That is good to hear. I am glad it has worked out well for her.

@Forthelovcaring for elderly parents is a real boiling the frog situation.

There is usually a crisis which precipitates the decline into needing more support and who doesn’t want to help their DPs in their time of extreme need and then they get used to the level of support you provided for what was meant to be a short time, social services get hold of your number and before you know it you’re getting multiple calls per day and effectively running two households, that’s if you’re lucky enough to put the personal boundaries in place not to just end up living there.

Its such a horrible insidious takeover of your whole life and unless you’re a really strong person or your DPs were bad enough that you can walk away with no guilt it’s soul destroying.

Thanks @rookiemere good evaluation of the reality.Sadly there are some posters who genuinely have not lived the experience.It is good to have a space where we have shared experiences and can support others.

Good for him. Sounds like my dad, until you got to the GB news bit. That’s not like my dad.

Frog boiling is so so apt, can’t believe I haven’t really seen it until now.

And yet I still blame myself for enabling. Boundaries are so hard when it’s people you love in a very vulnerable position, despite being flawed humans.

Yup @Chalicesand sometimes deep down I believe I find it easier to blame my DPs for not agreeing to the care they need and being a bit angry at them because it makes it possible to try and step back from the whole sad situation swallowing me whole.

I have seen what it does to friends of a similar age who love their DPs with all their hearts - one of them has moved in with her DF and her life revolves around him and her DM in a care home and another has moved her DM with dementia into her flat with her ADHD pre adolescence DS and she is sleeping on the sofa. Honestly I would rather die myself than be in that situation and I don’t actually say that lightly.

Some people - mostly those who haven’t been through this - say I should have compassion for my poor DPs, of course I do but I also have compassion for ME as I matter too.

Yep , I put it down to boredom and being in an area of Kent full of it for 12 years !

I do think there is a fair bit of that too -

God yes @rookiemere After the recent daughters'-lives-swallowing crisis dsis & I have both been deliberately easing back on the pedal and spaceing out Mum visits again -we are so lucky that she can afford and accepts carers to meet what she needs, and we have found good , reliable ones. But even then its an effort, and the visits we do make are draining, stressful and frustrating, mainly because being old and disabled is what it is really. But as we say to each other - we need to keep some powder dry for the next crisis. We do feel we get the odd raised eyebrow from her neighbours (or are we just paranoid??) but we are very quick to say how busy we both are with work, how exhausting we find the drive, etc .

These threads make me realise how very, very lucky we are.

But to those struggling with guilt while giving up too much to help unreasonably demanding parents, know that they don't have to be pandered to. It is not the obligation of all children of EPs to be dragged down to their knees, you are entitled to say "NO I CAN NOT DO THAT" And you, my eps, actually have no right to expect it.

Yes very entitled.. I do what I can. Im worn out though. Could be years it. Gets you down. Hate it at times. Mean with money too. List goes on lol

Community is there for those who seek it. The church, U3A, various volunteering organisations, choirs, sports, knit and natter… but you have to prioritise them.

And I agree with @DizzyDucklings that people also need to become content in their own company. DM needs someone to look at her and listen to her all the time. I can’t go to the toilet without her talking to me through the door. She cannot just sit and be still, read, think. She’s like a toddler.

And @Changename12 was it you who said you and your husband are fit and healthy and aren’t suffering cognitive decline? That’s great, but when it happens you won’t notice. DM is enraged at all the people who are failing to tell her things, or explain things properly, or do things properly. She’s working her way through tvs and internet providers and routers because the TV ‘isn’t working properly’. She’s can’t understand how to use it and can’t follow instructions when it’s explained. It’s )gone wrong again’. She keeps switching things off at the plug and they lose their programming and have to be set up from scratch again.

But she has no idea it’s her. It’s the stuff, it’s ‘too complicated, a silly system, changes all the time’ etc.

So make sure the back up plan is ready, even if you feel good now. Dad went from firing on all cylinders, fit active and with responsibilities, to dead within 18 months. And they hadn’t sorted anything out because he had been so well, they didn’t need to yet.

I feel too old to be dealing with EPs, to be honest. When DH and I were 25 we had one grandparent each. Our 25-30yr old kids still have 3 out of 4.