Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

Yes the making poor choices is ok as long as they have capacity... My father has made some truly utterly crap decisions that have had long lasting and utterly awful impact on him and me.... But still it seems hee was free to make these decisions as he was deemed to have capacity...

I used to be part of a team assessing capacity for various decisions...

I would say at the time he had fluctuating capacity at best...

You have summarised it really well, we are reaching I feel the first elderly generation who can’t rely on a daughter or daughter in law popping round all the time for the very reasons you have said, families no longer on the doorstep and social care of any kind very hit and miss.

Which raises the question, what can be done? I think we need more continuous care communities like there are in the USA. You move into an independent living section whilst you are still fit and able and then move through the different levels of care, as and when / if needed. All this takes place on one site.

Problem is, these kind of communities are expensive and therefore won't be a solution for everyone.

@Strawberriesandpears that is a great idea however if you have parents like mine they have utterly resisted anything to adapt to old age. They have lived in the same house for over 60 years and have barely maintained it for the past 30 years. They retired and went off having fun for years and never sat back and thought, ‘oh maybe a downstairs bathroom would be sensible’. Then old old age hit and they were snookered. All their peers moved years ago to lovely bungalows or apartments and they sneered. The ridiculous ‘we don’t want bungalow knee’ comment was in every conversation. That said I actually think they have just never grown up. They have never really had any problems in life so have no coping skills. If I am honest I think they are a toxic co dependent couple who because they were so beautiful- and they were - they thought they would be immortal.

20+ years ago there seemed to be more funding (or fewer elderly people too?!) and it was much much easier to get a funded place in residential care. Or in a kind of extra care development. I have several elderly relatives, now deceased, who moved from council housing to residential care. That meant family/friends (mostly not very local) could visit but there was none of the full on caring required. They would never have been eligible for that now, and would have ended up isolated and lonely stuck at home waiting for short carer visits to ping ready meals and everything falling through the cracks (who deals with the falls, the shopping, the house maintenance, the out-of-date food)?

I know there are good reasons behind wanting to keep people in their homes for as long as possible, but it only really works if there’s local family who get on and communicate in place to support it.

The same with pushing people out of hospital to “virtual wards “. All the electronic monitoring in the world doesn’t make up for lack of regular interaction with others, decent regular meals and having someone on hand 24/7 for when they do fall.

Lots of excellent comments here and yes times are different many families do not all live close by. However, I am still of a mind that none of us should be expecting our adult children to be our carers. I have watched my parents, tried to gently cajole them to adapt to later life to no avail. What they want and need changes and it cannot fall to a generation who are all unlikely to retire until well into their 60s to be the responsible adults of our parents. It is too much. I have made some changes very much earlier than perhaps I need to simply so I have anew lease of life in a manageable property which I have renovated so everything is brand new and will not need much long term maintenance. It has been liberating. The ins and outs of funding etc are interesting but there has to be some responsibility for adapting to life as we age. My parents simply sat back and had a great early retirement and made zero effort to think ahead. Then the crisis or rather crises kept happening.

I think we've reached this point because of the reliance of "the daughter or daughter in law popping round all the time". It's this reliance that it always seems to fall onto to woman any sort of care needs such as grandchildren, elderly parents and their own children and I think many woman (quite rightly) want more out of life.

I work in elderly social care and see far too often people (mainly woman) completely burnt out from juggling many roles such as simultaneously looking after elderly relatives/children/grandchildren and juggling careers. People are living much longer and with much more complex illnesses that didn't exist a few generations ago when we did rely more on families to support one another.

We have never been designed to rely on just our nuclear family with mum, dad and siblings for support and I think we're seeing more and more now how that is completely unstainsable. I'm not sure what the answer is for elderly care moving forward but the whole system needs completely looked at and overhauled.

The numbers are striking, though I’m now going to give a somewhat vague timescale - the number of over 65s has something like doubled, but the number of over 85s has quadrupled, I think in about 4 decades.

My family has always had a lot of long lived people but in past generations they either were already in institutions when very old, or were the sort of people who expected to employ servants. It does at least mean that the idea of paying for help from outside the family is normal - but I’m not sure how sustainable that is either.

I think as well there is a lot of talk of families living closer but also there was much more support from within the community that people drew on. People knew their neighbours well, you had a family GP instead of just seeing the first doctor available, people went out to the shops and socialised in their communities so knew the people working in shops etc. People didn't solely use their family for support.

Funding is becoming scarce, I see this every year in my work and the services we can offer people get less and less. But also we can't just expect families or friends to pick up the slack. As someone said above, it's far too much for people who won't be retiring until their late 60s.

1 in four people of my age won't have children by the time they retire (or at least I think that's what the statistic is) and families are getting smaller too and people are living longer so there definitely needs to be a whole new model on elderly social care and how we make sure people are not isolated and supported.

I am sorry. That's such a difficult situation. I really don't know why people don't plan for old age. I know it's horrible to face your decline and inevitable death, but it comes to us all.

Wishing you all the best.

I think we will have to build more continuous care communities. They are common in the USA. Near me, there are plans for an 'aging well village' which provides housing for older people, with an integrated 'frailty hub'. So basically care and resources all on one site which you live on. I would like to live somewhere like that when I am older.

I have no children, and am an only child too, so no extended family. The idea of ending up all alone terrifies me. I am taking steps now to look at what might be available in the future and am building a dedicated savings pot to try and fund my older living arrangement.

I am quite often told by people on here and in real life that I am 'morbid', strange, obsessed with old age etc, but I think it's sensible to think about these things and to try to plan ahead.

I think it was you @BlueLegumethat said people don’t change when they get older, they become an amplified version of themselves. Therefore it’s utterly pointless telling people who are like your DPs but younger to prepare for their old age as they simply won’t listen. DH is a case in point, despite seeing directly the impact of my DPs lack of acceptance of much that would help, he still clings to the belief that diet and exercise will resolve everything and he will never go into a care home. I must be odd because the prospect of a care home doesn’t scare me, I like company and I like being looked after.

Therefore maybe the balance needs to shift to encouraging adult DCs to have boundaries. I do not want DS to have to do what DH and I are doing at the minute for my DPs and I tell him repeatedly that I do not expect this when I am older and he shouldn’t do it for either of us. I have had to pull back a bit on what I do for DPs - I thought they would recognise the impact on me but either they are beyond caring or they are so worried about their own survival that I am collateral damage. I hope if it comes to it DS can say no and we use professional care or institutions.

@rookiemere thankfully my other half and I are very in synch with our plans. You make really good points that we have to accept these are personalities who would never listen anyway. Yes it was me who referenced people not changing but becoming amplified versions of themselves. My kids know all about boundaries and know how to implement them. Sympathy for far too many of us!

I think there's a market for these type of places for some people and they can be useful but I certainly couldn't think anything worse moving there in my 50s and 60s and being surrounded by people who are at the stage of needing care. And they are also very expensive too which is probably out of reach for most people.

I can understand your fear but I think being an only child is seperate from this. By the time you're needing care any siblings would probably be at this stage too and I think you're greatly overestimating that nieces/nephews would step in and provide the same sort of support or company you might expect from children. They would no doubt have their own families, parents and in-laws to deal with. I've worked with hundreds of older people and the very few that had nieces/nephews involved in their care have made it clear to me that it's been an unwanted burden to them on top of their own responsibilities.

And I do mean this nicely but perhaps listen to what people are saying. It's good to have concerns and knowledge what's out there and as you get older to start making preparations. But I've seen your other posts and you're in your 30s like me and it does seem it is a near obsession for you and one that isn't healthy. Many of us won't need care and its important to live your life too!

You are right. Even if I had nieces and nephews, I wouldn't expect them to step in. My lack of support will be my own fault for not having children. I would have liked them, but sadly life hasn't worked out like that for me. And even if I had children, I would feel guilty placing the burden on them.

Having said that though, in my family childless relatives have always been looked out for by their nieces and nephews. Even if it's just as a point of contact for hospital / a care home. They at least had someone to list as next of kin. I will be what is known as a kinless person or an elder orphan.

I also wouldn't want to move to a retirement community too early. However I think it's risky to leave it too late. I have know people in their late 60s and early 70s who have a sudden health crisis which has changed everything for them.

It's all very very worrying. I hate the idea of being a burden on other people. Hate not being responsible for myself. I know I should try to live my life now, but it's hard and I wish I could somehow 'solve' the issues which are coming down the line for me. That's why I spend so much time researching options etc - I want to sort myself out and try not to be a burden.

My godmother died about a year ago. She had really wonderful care from her nephew, supplemented by her other goddaughter (I did a bit) plus visits from friends made over a lifetime. She had to go straight into a care home when medical issues got to a certain level - tbh in her case that would probably always have been the case due to the severity of what happened to her. It doesn’t always look the same as the situation for people who have children, but I’m also not sure it is dramatically worse either. She lived an incredibly full and social life right up until age 83.

Looking back at my parents’, GP’s and great-GP’s generations they also all worked close to where they lived. Often the women weren’t working, or were doing something very local for pin money. All the ones at work saw people
at work who also lived locally, used the same shops, leisure facilities (park, church etc), doctor and hospital. If you had an ill older relative, then chances are people at work knew them too, or were using the same hospital for someone in their family.

It all feels a bit claustrophobic to me, but, apart from temporary student jobs, have never lived and worked in the same town. I have always commuted.

It wouldn’t necessarily have to be a retirement community. Surely some kind of integrated community with a mixture of bungalows (sensible ones without enormous gardens to maintain), family housing, accessible flats suitable for single people/couples/small family with a local residential and nursing home,
on a bus route with nearby shops, medical centre, play areas, library etc would be an ideal?

But your sole reason for having children shouldn't have been for support for yourself. I work in elderly care and what happens to me when I'm older didn't even cross my mind when deciding to have children. They aren't guarantee of anything, they could move away or have health concerns of their own. Many people aren't having children either so you're not in a unique position.

And if I'm not mistaken, you have a partner so they'd be your next of kin anyway. I can appreciate it being a concern but it seems like you make every decision in your life in connection to what happens when your older such as making friends so they'll be a companion to you when your older. It's a massive pressure to put on people.

It's a long time before any of this will be an issue for you and I can understand its a worry but if its taking over your life and stopping you living in the present then it is a problem and one you should perhaps seek support for. Honestly it's pointless researching places that might not even exist when you need them.

Oh I agree, but I would have liked children for other reasons too. The lack of support in old age which comes from not having them is like another kick in the teeth. I have read blogs from older people who are alone without family, and they all say how difficult and sad it is. It's a struggle to find anything positive. I guess that is why I am looking for 'solutions' - nobody wants to think of themself as old, ill, lonely and alone. It's not a nice future to face.

When I make friends, I don't tell them that I would like to still be friends in old age. I never mention it. But I would like to have long term connections with people, if that makes sense. Some people achieve that with their siblings (not everyone, I know though). Or they have friends they have had since childhood. Through no real fault of my own, I don't have this. For me it's about being less lonely now too. This is a separate issue to old age care though.

This is so true. In my time working in elderly care there have been maybe some (not all) cases where if they have not had children that maybe parts they've found getting older harder but for the most part as you say it hasn't been all that different or dramatically worse than if they had children. I certainly haven't noticed them being more "alone" or less lonely either. Most people have I meet who have adult children, their children are busy with their own lives as what should be expected. Not that they don't love or provide support to their parents, but they have their own lives to lead too as they should!

Honestly these blogs you are reading are just emotional self harm. My husbands godmother who is in her 60s has no family (her brother and parents are dead and no children or nieces or nephews). She and her husband are well known in their local community, she goes to music festivals around the world and has loads of time with close friends. Another family friend again with no children etc has been on safari and to Japan this year. And they aren't the only people. They certainly aren't living their life in their 60s, doom and gloom, with nothing positive in their life nor are they alone or lonely.

Perhaps read blogs from people who are childless and older and are living rich full lives as they will be plenty of them. If you've told yourself your life will be lonely and you'll be alone with nothing positive then that's how you'll probably be. If you continue to paint and view yourself as some tragic helpless victim then you'll never move into a positive mindset where you can make action to live a positive life.

There's loads that you can do that's in your control to change your life but its entirely up to you but it certainly isn't going to happen by reading doom mongering blogs.

It’s surely about mindset? I can think of several elderly women I know who never had children but who have made an effort to cultivate relationships across generations, by being interested in people and being involved in local activities. They’re not facing a lonely old age because there are multiple people
who look out for them and want to spend time with them. Because they’re nice, good company, interested in others and have a natural curiosity which means they’ve never stopped learning.

They’re the people I choose to go and have a coffee and a chat with, because I like them and I value their advice. Which cannot be said for the elderly people I’m related to!

Agree with this @EmotionalBlackmail.
My DM has a friend in their home country who I sometimes call now because DM can’t really speak that well anymore. Friend is same age as DM but is bright, jolly, has her cat for company and does some after school childminding for a neighbours DD. Not bad for 87. At first I phoned her out of duty, but now actually I quite enjoy speaking to her, she is upbeat and self reliant.
Of course I have to remind myself that DM cannot help her health issues, but she’s never been a terribly positive person and quite critical of others. I know I have tendencies that way myself so I make a deliberate effort to be interested in others and particularly in friends DCs as it’s good to talk to people of different ages. It’s also one of the reasons I want to get back to work - I enjoy talking to the young people and getting a feeling of what they enjoy doing and what are the typical concerns.

100%. As the people I mentioned before, they aren't simply lonely or alone because they've made time and effort to make new connections and relationships. I always think it's those that make no effort to socialise out their family that are the most lonely. There was a good article on this in the guardian about a book called Joyspan on this very topic.

I think the previous PP that is being told they are morbid, strange or obsessed would do well to reflect on this and what they can do to work towards a positive mindset to help build lifelong connections. No one is going to be motivated to spend their time with someone who is so doom and gloom!