Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

i do appreciate that I won’t necessarily know that I won’t know that I am declining. I have certain mental markers that I have observed in elderly people beginning with reluctance to make the effort to go upstairs etc.
Very importantly, I am investigating how to write a living will so that in the case I loose mental capacity, I wish not to be given any life saving drugs.

@Crikeyalmighty I’ve not seen you post for a while but I’m so glad to hear your FILs move to a bungalow is working out.

Yep I do post a lot generally but not on elderly board as to be honest I don’t have much to moan about!! He’s doing well and to be honest I think he is looking a lot better too - still looking for a friendly, fun, solvent, sane , well kept lady late 70s/early 80s for him - lol- I do think he misses having a woman around .

@Changename12 good to hear you are investigating a living will. My parents spent 20 years telling me they were doing this. They never did it. Investigating it means nothing. If you are serious it is very simple.I did one 4 years ago and my solicitor has a copy.

https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/end-of-life-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

I wish mine just had PoA. And DM has made it clear about her needs- every last second of life is to be clutched, regardless of quality!

She’s currently watching her younger sister’s decline, and understandably upset by it. There’s no PoA there either and it’s causing problems, but she still hasn’t done one herself. Both she and MiL spend a lot of time at various medical appointments, which don’t seem to improve their quality of life. DFiL would happily go, I think. If only for a rest from being nagged by DMiL, bless him. He just wants to doze on the sofa and she won’t have it!

My parents talked about POA for 20 years and it took me to say I would organise it about 10 years ago. I did all of it including paying for it. Some people simply procrastinate- mine were ‘going’ to do all sorts such as downsizing to a ‘lovely little apartment with a view’. Never happened.

Mine won’t sign it as she’s convinced it will be used against her. And she won’t let anyone help with her money for the same reason. So she’s stuck doing stressful chores others could help with.

@PrizedPickledPopcorn tbh they are pretty pointless. The finance one is used by one sibling, do I trust him, no, do I care if he is taking money he shouldn’t, no. I do not want anything to do with her finances.

H and W is pointless as long as they have capacity.I’d argue my mother has never had capacity as she has always made stupid life choices that massively impact others.

Social services say she has capacity. They based that on the fact she can boil a kettle and she knew who the Prime Minister is.

I’d agreed with DSis that she’d have H&W because she is physically closer, and we’d have Finance so we can help even at a distance. But she changed her mind and made it clear to mum that she’d be cross of it wasn’t all of us. So it’s none of us. She’s also helped mum with something recently, that’s gone really badly, and has undermined mum’s trust even further. Sis hasn’t actually done anything wrong, but because DM is an awkward cuss who over complicates everything, it’s really backfired. Sigh.

I would mind less, if I wasn’t going to be the one dealing with it all when it goes pear shaped. Which might be quite soon.

@BlueLegumethe capacity bar is truly puzzling to me. Just because DF might be able to identify the numbers on a clock and his DOB this doesn’t mean real capacity does it? Surely putting mouldy philadelphia on DMs toast, getting lost whilst driving and forgetting where he is ( thankfully no more driving if I manage to snaffle the keys today - fun times ), not remembering if he has taken his insulin or tested his blood sugars or not and not being able to name or see the microwave which is clearly in front of him all indicate lack of capacity.

Just because he is able to clearly state he would hate to be in a care home doesn’t really indicate capacity to me, but hey ho I am somewhat beyond the point of caring and just going through the motions now trying not to upset myself in the process. Unfortunately I do feel an obligation to try and safeguard DM as she is in the same house.

Oh and just to comment on this - yes it is likely that the neighbours are raising their eyebrows, it’s so easy to look from the outside and think what you would do in that situation without having any real knowledge of what it entails.

Its a bit like motherhood- it’s the luck of the draw if you get a good sleeper or not, those who do go around with a dewy glow and our deemed to have “taken well to motherhood “ whereas those who don’t and develop PND or struggle are judged as lacking.

Some people are lucky enough to have DPs who never develop dementia or other infirmities and live to a ripe old age dying quietly with minimal intervention. My Duncle died aged 86 of a heart attack whilst walking up a hill on holiday, no serious illnesses except being deaf as a post - now that’s how I want to go ! But we don’t get the choice do we ? And those of us with DPs who develop more and more intensive requirements whilst either not having been great DPs or personalities shifting as they age or both, are being measured against an unfair standard for those who have zero idea what they are expecting in reality for not being caring enough, visiting enough etc. etc.

Women - particularly late middle aged women - are meant to be self sacrificial. Everyone is astonished that I am trying not to be. Why my DPs expect me to be when they brought me up in the 70s/80s to prioritise education and getting a good job is a bit of a mystery to me, but their brains are to short fused to have any meaningful conversation about anything and their immediate needs are the only overriding imperative they have left.

Sorry went on a bit of a riff there .

I must have been lucky with one social worker assessing capacity - they (correctly) identified that although mum was able to express a strong preference in where she lived, she was unable to articulate the consequences of that decision, given her needs. And thus said she didn’t meet the bar for capacity in their eyes.

I’m sure the vast majority of the population would say they want to be at home if they are asked for a preference. But if the same person is handwaving away questions like “how will you get to the toilet”, “who will do your laundry” with a vague it-will-get-sorted-somehow then no, they don’t have full capacity to decide where they should live.

Good to hear @funnelfan. I do mental capacity assessments and though they’re not easy, they’re also not THAT hard to get right.

I totally agree with the 'boiling a frog' explanation for how helping elderly parents takes over your life, and why it's not as easy as some think to just say no. I dropped everything to help when there was a health crisis with DF, taking time off work and putting everything else on hold. As so often happens, I don't have time to catch up on my own work/life before the next crisis and the same level of support was expected again- repeated many times until DF died by which time DM's health problems and cognitive abilities had declined. Obviously I wanted to support DM as she came to terms with DF death, but now we are in a situation where I don't feel I can keep doing what has already become expected but DM, other family members and HCP etc are expecting that I will do more.

The one thing I think would make a huge difference to DM would be if she had got in the habit of socialising more when she was fitter, and built a wider social circle. Her confusion/anxiety etc is always worse when she has not had much social interaction but unfortunately the only time she sees anyone is if one of a very small number of family members visits. She hasn't socialised much at all for many years, always claiming to be too busy, or that things she was invited to were not her sort of thing. As a result she's not met any new people and all her old friends have either passed away or are old and frail themselves. If she had joined a social club, taken up a hobby with a social element or event just taken up some of the invitations to go out that I know she declined then she might have had other friends who would pop in for a chat sometimes. Plus she would be in the habit of meeting new people and might be willing to go to one of the clubs for older people that she's been offered. I think there's a lot to be said for remaining open to doing new things and recognising that for most people socialising brings benefits in and of itself. It doesn't have to be about doing something that's terribly exciting or meeting up with people you are desperate to spend time with- just a chance to go for a walk or sit and chat with another person can make a big difference.

My late MIL knew perfectly well that King Charles the third was the king and so on, but quite happily let her (wonderful and sensible) DD take charge of the finances years before she died. My dad definitely has capacity but his judgment is not what it was. We are trying to get him to consent to DB and I having oversight via PoA (which he registered 10 years ago), but he’s not quite there yet…

My mother is expecting me to become her carer if need be, and definitely to take over the finances. My Dad currently does all the finances however if anything were to happen to him she would be clueless as it's all online. It frustrates me as she is perfectly capable of using the internet for leisure pursuits though and makes no effort to learn about online banking.

I'm really dreading what the future has in store for me. I am an only child. There is very limited wider family, and the only people we do have will rely on me too as they aren't the most capable either.

I myself have no children, so I'll have nobody to provide any support for me when I am older. All seems very unfair. It's a very heavy weight. I actually feel the enormity of it dragging me down everyday.

I have fortunately been able to financially help my parents in their retirement. They were immigrants with not enough years in the UK to receive full state pension and whilst they both have small private pensions it was just not enough when they both retired at 65. The condition of my assistance was that I purchased a property which would serve as my own retirement property one day (possibly with a rental period in between them occupying it and me). I have purchased a retirement unit in a largish estate with other retirees. It has honestly been the best thing for both of us. They are both involved in various clubs and committees and there is never a shortage of visitors or social functions. The village has a clear path for those needing higher and higher care and so should either of them need to move into a frail or high care facility the other would be close by. The amount of pressure that has been eased by me not having to worry about what they are up to each day is immense.

Im still not certain whether it’s my cup of tea for my own retirement but the unit can easily be sold as they are in high demand.

Im very much an outsourcer and feel fortunate to be able to afford it. My DSis is more nurturing than I am but I am more practical so I’ll rope her in when the emotional going gets tough 😂

We’ve got a really nice development about 8 miles from us in Corsham called wadswick Green - swimming pool, restaurant, the works , flats are lovely too - not remotely cheap ( about £480k and high service charge) but I can see why it would suit plenty of those with the cash wanting a bit of life still!

I agree, my DP can use Amazon, Temu and eBay with ease, but are not interested in learning online banking etc. It drives me nuts.

I am also acutely aware that my own DC is an only. I'm 45, but I will be doing everything in my power to ensure that the house is minimal, that I have will/POA/cleaners/gardeners and then care in place, and if not that than I have 10k for dignitas. There is no way that I am doing to my DC what my DP are doing to me.

This is the sort of place I would like to move to myself in my old age. I think maybe the coming decades will see more of these kind of developments, as demand will growing as people have fewer children, and adult children become more and more busy and unable to support aging parents.

I think a lot of them, certainly looking at my elderly relatives, didn’t have to think
about what would happen to them once they reached retirement age, so it’s never occurred to them to think about the generation below or to have any idea how different it is.

Mine got either amazing final
salary pensions after retiring in their 50s or a good spouse’s pension or a state pension but guaranteed lifetime council tenancy. The sort of final salary pension that just turns up after a lifetime of working for one organisation. They don’t have multiple pension pots or had to regularly check in and make decisions about those pension pots. They didn’t have insecure tenancies or a mortgage into retirement. They haven’t moved jobs multiple times.

The maths doesn’t add up. In theory my “D”M knows that my retirement age will be not far off 70, but she can’t wrap
her head around that means I’ll be working until then. And therefore not available to her. She thinks I should give up work and my DH support me so that I can support her. But it takes two incomes to pay the mortgage.

Plus I’d far rather be at work than supporting her!

Also many people thought they would die sooner. Although I think it’s dipped slightly over last couple of years, life expectancy over the past decade vast exceeds previous ones. It’s not unusual for people to live to late 80s/ early 90s either through a lot of medical intervention or because they have enjoyed a good diet , central heating ( apparently good for longevity) and a relatively stress free lifestyle.

People were able to look after their elderly relatives because they only needed looking after for a finite period of time. Now due to flu jabs and aggressive treatment for pneumonia etc. the unhealthy living period can go on for decades, particularly when well supported by an adult DC or two ( who likely won’t live as long themselves due to the stresses of caring whilst trying to work and look after their own family).

My gran moved continents to be with my mum, did loads of childcare for me when i was little, and paid for a big chunk of the house we all lived in. So she might reasonably have expected care, but my parents said they couldn't cope and put her in a home.

My mum kept on trying to coerce me to be my Dad's carer. They lived an hour away and I had small children myself. Also they didnt help with childcare and certainly wouldnt have helped us buy a house.

Expectation isnt always based on what they've done for others!

I was meant to have "insurance" so I could not work and look after them!

Crikey, what sort of insurance would cover that?!?! What planet are these elderly parents on?!

Mine thinks you can take paid compassionate leave at the drop of a hat. To attend funerals of random acquaintances. To drive her to attend funerals of people she knew years ago. To do all the hospital appointments.

I don’t know if others have come up against this, but the move to having larger specialist hospitals further away causes chaos for accessing them if someone doesn’t drive. There’s an assumption that someone will drive them there.

Even if I wasn’t working I wouldn’t be able to do this because of the schoolrun!