Two worlds colliding - the perfect storm

[BlueLegume]

I have had several threads on here and found lots of support for the most part. I won’t repeat my story at this stage but I had a real moment of clarity this week about the situation I have found myself in with my elderly parents.

It dawned on me that having left my hometown and my parents 40 years ago I have forged a life elsewhere, and a busy life at that. A life I love(d). I realised, stupidly, that I assumed my parents life was as busy as mine, and fulfilling. They certainly talked the talk about how busy they were.

What has emerged over the past years of having to be more involved with them from a crisis situation is that they really did not live life to the full, no hobbies, just miserable in each others company in a house they did nothing to other than hoard crap from the middle aisle at a well known supermarket .

They retired 30 years ago and seem to have done nothing to keep active even though they had the means to. My aunts and uncles in the same area seem to have lovely social lives and are thriving in old age. Mine always looked down on their peers as silly people ‘keeping busy for the sake of it’ - but it has meant they have kept their world more open.

Mine are now in a place they do not like, father in a nursing facility mother just unable to cope with anything.

Anyway my point I suppose is that I am not truly surprised. They could never cope with anything big decisions. My mother has always thrown a strop when she has not liked a situation and in the past we tended to all just do what she wanted so she never had to learn any coping skills. So no surprise she cannot cope with this phase of life. Over many years we have tried to listen to their moans and come up with solutions but they always knew better so frankly have ended up exactly in the mess of their own creation.

I have made significant changes in my life so that old age will be more manageable. I wish we could make this something we talk about more. I do not want to put my kids through what my parents have done to me. I am healing now but they definitely broke me with unreasonable expectations.

I completely understand your position @BlueLegume

I’m a bit younger than you but in the middle of the teens and elderly parents sandwich. We have already made decisions that in the next 5-10 years, DH and I will sell up. Downsize to a property/area that will make our lives easier in our 70s and 80s. Not weigh us down with stuff to do and an old house to maintain. I think it is important to be proactive in your 50s and 60s to create the best possible life for yourself in later years.

I see so many elderly people whose homes work against them rather than work for them. My MIL was like it. Desperate to stay in the family home which was too big, too cold, too much of a weight around her neck. And full of stuff that we had to sort after she passed.

Nope, that’s not for me and luckily, DH is on board. Thank goodness.

@SeaAndStars what a poignant post. My parents house wasn’t bad to look at - if anything quite fancy - but they still overbought stuff without thinking ‘oh we already have 8 buckets do we really need another. clearly yes.

I used to joke that mine should have got divorced in about 1975 but I think I was right. They were very disdainful of each other and worse so in later life when their looks faded.

We are a generation who hopefully will not repeat the mistakes of some of that generation.

My mother talked about leaving my father for 30 years. I wish for both of their sakes she had been brave enough to do so. They couldn't have been more unhappy apart than they were together.

I had a laugh at your 8 buckets point but do entirely know what you mean@BlueLegume .

My parents had whole drawers full of all the specs and false teeth(!!!!) they'd ever owned and, when we cleared the loft, we took out 7 broken toasters and 9 dead vacuum cleaners.

I don't know if the inability to let things go is a sign of misery or if misery makes people hold on to material things, however useless they are.

Look after yourself OP. You sound lovely.

Thank you @BlueLegume(and other posters) for such a thoughtful thread, full of wisdom and insight. I suspect I am a bit younger than many of you (mid-40s with an 8 year old) but I can see that my life is heading for the same trajectory as many of yours, with elderly parents in deep denial about the realities of ageing and hellbent on making poor, impulsive, expensive decisions against all advice to the contrary. DP and I are determined to avoid anything remotely similar for DD (especially as she’s an only child) and are already planning for our future very carefully, learning from my parents’ mistakes.

My own mother sounds incredibly similar to yours @BlueLegume; I strongly identify with your descriptions of the lack of outside interests and terminal boredom (with simultaneous disdain for those who are ‘joiner inners’), need for constant drama, learned helplessness (can’t fill a car with petrol; can’t withdraw money from a cash machine), struggles with fading looks and shopping/hoarding obsession. My parents’ house is immaculate- their pride and joy - but their loft, fridge-freezer and every cupboard and drawer is filled to overflowing with ‘stuff’ - bulk bought snacks; ornaments; linen that’s never been used, boxes and boxes of Christmas tat… I suppose some of it must be the fallout from a relatively impoverished childhood (they are very much ‘working class made good’ and are now pretty wealthy) but I really struggle with my mum’s constant efforts to palm a lot of this stuff off on me when she gets tired of it (thus freeing up space for new stuff), the sheer waste of it all, and her judgment/dismissal of the things that others choose to spend money on. They have frittered so much money away on ‘stuff’ and on continually remodelling their already pristine, show home-style house that despite hefty pensions there are no savings and no contingency funds for emergencies like medical issues, vets’ bills and ‘boring’ home maintenance.

We current live very near my parents but are in the process of relocating an hour’s drive away for schooling, space and lifestyle reasons. My parents have intermittently expressed a desire to follow us (they blow hot and cold on this) but while we’re very happy to facilitate their move we are also wearily conscious that they won’t approach it in a sensible, rational way and will inevitably make life very difficult for everyone - already my mum has been sending me Rightmove links to 5 bedroom, three storey executive houses with an acre of garden that she ‘might go and view’. My parents are 80 and 87, and there is absolutely no way they are downsizing any time soon; they are extremely status conscious and would see this as a huge humiliation.

I am constantly torn between a nagging sense of duty and an urge to help them, and the stark knowledge that really they are beyond help as they will insist on making decisions that damage their own wellbeing. Reading this thread has been very instructive and has made me more confident in trusting my own instincts while accepting that ultimately my parents will be the architects of their own future.

@TempsPerdu goodness you nail everything that’s my parents. A couple of things really stand out the first being not spending on maintaining the property. Mine have resisted doing sensible upgrades over many years such as refusing to put low maintenance doors and windows in - so now they are rotten. The second thing that resonates is the old chestnut “we might go and view”……mine did go and view a few downsizing properties several years ago but nothing was ever right. Ever.

I do sometimes ponder if I expect people of their age to have the wisdom of a long life of experience. I have concluded that my mother is just a stroppy and sulky teenager who has never grown up. No one has ever said no to her. She also has and always has had a self destruct button where by she pushes and pushes people to see how much they will take. Then she feigns upset when they rightly step away. Then she says they don’t care. Awful behaviour.

Sounds so difficult. My own parents didn’t retire til their 70s, and led a very active life after - far more social and busy than mine! They had just come back from a road trip to Madrid (they lived part time in Spain) when my father had a stroke from which he never recovered. My mother was adamant that she would not be a burden to us and often said so. Fortunately she had the means to have private home carers, which eventually became 24 hours. She was able to be in her own home until the end, and everything was ship shape - a lifetime of moving countries and she had not many possessions but of high quality. Her affairs were all in order.
My life is not quite so ordered but I have long thought I need to do that death cleaning - sort my crap out so my kids don’t have to.

@BlueLegume I got a great deal of satisfaction from decluttering and sorting paperwork. I started looking at things I’d kept for years and thinking “Will the boys want them?”
for example I had a very old tea service that had belonged to my parents, it lived in an old cabinet which didn’t fit in our new house. I’ve kept 2 cups/saucers/plates, the rest went to a local farm shop who use vintage crockery in their cafe. Lovely to see it being used. Furniture went to BHF and Emmaus.
I spent last weekend sorting through my old school books and career stuff, kept the important stuff but filled the recycling bin with the rest!
It’s liberating.
although I don’t have elderly parents or in laws, I do have 2 elderly sister-in- laws, both single no children, both hoarders, both living in unsuitable, in maintained houses, so we wait for the inevitable crisis and I read the Elderly Parents board in anticipation!
💐 to all of you coping with this

It's so sad your parents lived their lives this way - and also how it has negatively impacted on your own life.

It's a hard and difficult one - coping with ageing and the practicalities. Does anyone get it completely right? - probably not, but there are degrees of taking preemptive action to minimise the fallout for both yourself and your adult children.

I was lucky with my parents - they had a lovely cottage which, thanks to my Mum, was kept in good order regarding functioning heating, appliances, etc. They were active and had friends in the village - indeed they met one for lunchtime drinks every day! In the couple of years after Mum died I employed a housekeeper to keep an eye on Dad while I was at work, and someone in the village was only too happy to cultivate their large garden in return for giving him the use of a large veg plot. The dear friend still met my Dad for a drink every day too - very loyal. My brothers and I cleared out the house in a couple of days after his death.

Now we're at the beginning of this stage - gulp - early 70's. We've tried to think ahead - my daughter asked us to move nearer when she had her children, so we used it as an opportunity. We swapped our old (albeit very updated and up-together) cottage with a large garden to a modern house with a small garden. This was done in our mid-60's just before Covid struck. Most importantly we're 30 minutes from our daughter. We're at the stage still where we do things for them, childcare, etc. and long may that continue.

I however realise how much stuff I've accumulated just in the few years since our move - so I need to start divesting myself of it. As my daughter is an only child I don't want her to find it too burdensome when the inevitable happens.

But with the best will in the world, it will still be a four bed house with every room utilised and furnished.

It's not easy fitting into a new community either, but we've lovely neighbours who we see and also my husband volunteers at the nearest cathedral. As my daughter's not working at the moment I see plenty of her too. I'm very relieved to be near her obviously.

Good to hear from you @BlueLegume.

The last time I heard from mine (because she won't leave me in peace), she sent me a message saying I should work with her to provide support for my sister who had cancer.

Funnily enough this involves one of DM's favourite activities, everyone going to a family event. This traditionally has involved much guilt tripping to get people involved, sulking if people can't make it, and determined efforts to create a scene at the event itself. Often by winding a victim up until they snap or get upset.

Also there must be many photos taken so she can e-mail them to relatives to demonstrate how popular she is, although I only discovered the extent of this fairly recently.

I think she just wants me there so she can pretend everything is ok, when my sister was going through surgery she sent us a text message on the day of a big operation demanding we... went to see her for a family event. Even although my sister had already said she wasn't going to be able to travel or do much after the op.

I've definitely found things a lot easier without having to go to these things!

I do sometimes ponder if I expect people of their age to have the wisdom of a long life of experience. I have concluded that my mother is just a stroppy and sulky teenager who has never grown up

This, in a nutshell. My mum says herself that the happiest time of her life was when she was fifteen, and I think she’s somehow resisted maturing much beyond that age. She prides herself on being ‘silly’ and frivolous and impractical, and leaves all the difficult choices and mundanities of life to other people. The worst thing is that it isn’t unconscious; she recognises this and prides herself on being the ‘Edina’ to my ‘Saffy’ - chides me for being boring and planning ahead for things, rather than lurching from crisis to crisis as she does. Also makes fun of me for choosing to volunteer in our local community (which I do as much for my own wellbeing as for other people’s as I genuinely enjoy it) - she is massively misanthropic, has no inner life and cannot find any small joys in life beyond material things and her own tiny nuclear family.

When I had my own child I was (probably naively) hoping for a few nuggets of wisdom on parenting but there was nothing - she has forgotten most of the details of our childhoods, beyond telling me what a nightmare my brother and I were and how much she dislikes ‘kiddy stuff’. As a grandparents is an annoying mix of clingy (wants to see DD regularly) and disinterested (not up for any childcare; won’t play with DD or listen properly to anything she says; talks over her and about her while she’s listening). Whenever we see her as if DD has been booked in with an audience with the Dowager Duchess.

It is both depressing and reassuring to find so many others have had similar experiences! I wish you all the very best @BlueLegume.

Yes I look at what my parents are doing and have made changes to my life now, mainly losing weight and trying to keep active as my dad has completely lost all motivation to keep active and now doesn't have much of a life as he refuses to use mobility aids despite the fact that they would increase his quality of life.

Like he can't even go for a very slow wander round the town centre, or to a farmers market, but wont consider a motorised mobility scooter, or even a walking zimmer type frame. My mum is tearing her hair out as she wants to go out and do stuff, but he isn't able. He also cant get moving in the morning so if I invite them to ours they'll often not make it till mid afternoon. As in, he doesn't get out of bed till mid morning, then spends an hour getting breakfast, 2 hours to shower and dress then an hour on his phone etc. Its a shame for my mum, but she also refuses to go out and do things alone, we've suggested things like volunteering at a charity shop, or joining the local WI, or taking up yoga

My parents (mainly my Mum) put their lives on hold to care for elderly relatives and, because of this, always swore that they would never be a burden to me and my siblings.

They are now in their 80s. Dad is in the early stages of dementia. Mum keeps having bad falls. And...they are not doing anything to help themselves! They see themselves as 'not that bad' - but every week there is some crisis that needs addressing. They are rapidly becoming the burden they never wanted to be, but don't seem to recognise it ☹️

I think you that one of worse parts of growing up is when you realise that your parents have made poor life choices and made everything much harder for their children. My DP wont do anything about anything and everything will end up being my problem to sort out. Their quality of life could be massively improved by making some good choices now. They will also complain about whatever happens next, like your DF, if he had looked into care options maybe he wouldn’t be in one that he hates so much?

I’m 50 and already looking at downsize planning for 65, I won’t put my DC Through this shit.

I’ve lost a huge amount of respect for my parents and have significantly reduced contact.

I agree with this - I will see my parents, DM will go over again how terrible it was that she had to care for both parents (not entirely true but that's another story) and how she will never put the same burdens on us. The next day I will get 3-5 texts either in work time or in the later evening asking me to do several different things for them from popping over to dust because they sacked the cleaner to going to a specific shop to pick up a specific item. If I say no, I get the kind of faux disappointment a 9 year old might show when they have not been given the answer they wanted. It's infuriating.

Oh my word - are you me - except handily for them, my DPs weren’t in the country when either of their respective DPs needed hands on caring. However they saw the example of one of our neighbours, poor widow propped up at home with the aid of the Scottish 4 free carers a day. I should have got my cues from the fact that latterly this was all the fault of their negligent adult DS who “should have put her in a home” and “only visited once a fortnight “. DM was particularly adamant that I should throw them into a home when it became difficult and DF keen to stress that they didn’t want to be a burden.

Well guess what’s happened. Both of them appear to have some form of dementia and Dm is bed-bound. They refuse any additional support - sometimes even if it’s free - but don’t seem to care that DH and I (only DC) are crippling ourselves doing the two hour return drive to help them. DF goes on about inheritance but isn’t compos mentis enough to understand that their intransigence around care is effectively stopping me from making a decent living.

It has taught me that words are cheap, it’s actions not intentions that matter. I intend to get a cleaner long before I absolutely need one and identify potential care solutions. Someone in another thread had suggested writing a letter whilst in full faculties and I would like to do that too, to tell DS that genuinely he must not put his life on hold for us. I hope I manage to follow through. If my DPs were in full possession of their faculties, I like to think they would be shocked by what they are doing to me, DF maybe not so much he has always been selfish but DM for sure.

In the same way that we are not responsible for our children's happiness, neither are we responsible for the happiness of our parents.

They are adults with agency. As long as they have capacity, they can (and do) make decisions that make themselves miserable, poor and lonely.

Once they have done that, it is not for their children to compensate for their bad decisions.

We can only do better for ourselves and our own children.

Absolutely agree that I’ve lost respect for my parents. When they were younger they openly mocked their peers who were downsizing and adapting their homes to make things more manageable. I’ve also uncovered a lot of lies they have told or rather lies by omission. My mother has always and I mean always told me “all our affairs are in order”. Everything you need when we die is filed under W for will. No such thing. Yes there is a piece of paper saying split everything between the 3 children. But that’s it. Also I sorted the LPOA out completely.

As for their office it’s an utter shambles with piles of stuff everywhere. As for when we die everything is under W…..did she think they’d both go to bed one night and die at the same time? No I don’t think she did but as someone who kicks the can down the road all her life but ignored any issues I think she just buried her head in the sand and at the chime of 4pm every evening poured herself a gin and tonic.

Not a thought that we also have busy lives.

My DH and I regret creating an annexe in our home for my parents 18 years ago.
Only my 90yo dad is here now, but having him living here is preventing us from moving on.
It's complicated. I have started threads on MN several times before about our situation, getting many supportive comments and some great advice. And yet ... we have made no changes to the arrangement and I honestly don't know if I can find the courage to tell my dad.

The other thing is that there seem to be more of them around, perhaps not unsurprisingly given the nation's demographics.

I started on this board about 5 years ago and it's busier now. Back then I didnt know anyone IRL going through the same thing but there are several now.

There must be so many people struggling with elderly relatives, kids, jobs and their own health - I wonder if anyone's ever tried to estimate the big picture economic, social and health impacts, whether that would change policy.

@BlueLegume, what did you do you make your life more interesting than your parents?
Genuinely asking.

Wish me luck @HoraceGoesBonkers I was forced out of senior work a couple of years ago due to the squeeze, about to head back to a demanding position.
Two years on from my dad dying my mum has changed ? Evolved? She relays heavily on a group of friends opinions rather than my dad's rather blunt gut reactions. So there can be hope of change.

The PIL have rapidly aged in the 85 to 90 zone. The trouble is because they masked and fought aging they have no plan B, it's like witnessing two toddlers when a playdate starts to go awry. They also did the too good to mix thing so we can't even suggest mobility aids like their good friends. Nor have they mixed like my mum in groups who age and problem solve. My mum might one day get a mobility scooter like friend 1 & 2 but 3 never used hers and 4 left it too late. She has a wider frame of reference.
The in-laws have sneered at strangers on scooters for 20 years and the only frame of experience is their parents in hospital wheelchairs 40 years ago.

I hope DH and I do it better, like parenting we'll probably nail one aspect whilst dropping the ball in a different area.

Ah yes if only one went to bed with full capacity one night and woke up without it the next. Sadly dementia and cognitive don’t work like that.

Its the trenches in between that’s the killer ( sadly more likely of the carer) , capacity enough to express their wishes, or more usually what they definitely don’t want. So DF has enough capacity to say he doesn’t want to go to
a care home but not enough to recognise when food is mouldy or allow me to take over their shopping completely so the carers can prep all their meals.

I have shown myself to be pretty hard hearted over the past few months, but even I can’t leave DF to eat or feed DM mouldy food in good conscience so I do my best to intervene. Demi capacity is probably the best description.

Yes! The text messages/calls when I'm at work! They do ask 'you're not at work are you?' (where else would I be at 11am on a Thursday 🤨) but that doesn't stop them from wanting to talk for ages about something trivial like what the kids might want for Christmas. Part of Dad's dementia seems to be an inability to stop a story part way through. I can tell him repeatedly that I need to go, but he just keeps talking until he is finished 🤯

We have just managed to persuade them to get a cleaner. No other help is needed apparently!

And yes - Dad is obsessed with money and what he is going to leave us. We'd much rather they spent the money on getting some help, so our weekends don't revolve around sorting them out.

@SoManyDandelionsyou did better than me on the cleaner. I spent a painful afternoon going through the attendance allowance form with DM so she would have no financial reason to decline a cleaner < they’re worth about a million all told so it wasn’t really a valid reason anyway >. She had at that point macular degeneration and severe osteoporosis. She got the full amount but instead of it being used for the purpose it was designed she continued to trot out excuses about house being too messy and DF used the accumulated amount to buy himself a new TV instead.

As soon as she was bed bound I insisted on getting one in and DH has a red line around doing any gardening. I started off changing their sheets every fortnight but thankfully DH persuaded them to move that over to the cleaner as I am taken up with admin, fridge maintenance and taking DF out to places now on my visits.