Parents trying to foist sibling onto me

[TralalaTralalee]

My sister is disabled and has never lived independently from our parents. I don’t get on with her (partly we’re just very different people, partly I find her weirdly intrusive and manipulative). There is no chance that I would ever become her carer, allow her to live with me, or take on responsibility for her care.

Now that our parents are ageing I’ve started offering to help them more, but often what they want help with is actually things for my sister - they have always done everything for her/wrapped her up in cotton wool, but I believe she is capable of doing these things for herself (or at least could do with support, and is eligible for help from local services to give her that support).

I feel like I’m going around in circles with them: they know I’m not close to my sister, I’ve said I’m not willing to help her with anything she can do for herself, I’ve said she must become more independent. But it’s still constant requests to do things for her and every time I say no they are upset.

Has anybody been through similar? Do I just keep saying no over and over?

Maybe OP is.not religious. Lots of.people aren't.

I'm sure she gets plenty of meaning in her life from her DH and DCs.

I think there is a difference between what people choose to do (and you don't know what I have chosen to do or have done) and what other people think they should HAVE to do. If you read the OP's original post it seems that she has spent many years trying to make things easier for her parents. They have even possibly taught their disabled daughter to be as helpless as she is. Speaking as a retired health professional, there does come a point where a person has done all they can, and just plain cannot give what someone else wants. At that point, why is it not reasonable to withdraw?

I was carer for both my parents and my late husband.

I helped out a little bit when DH’s ex’s partner died. Then I realised to my horror that I was being lined up as the ex’s carer while the adult children and grandchild stayed at a safe distance - apart from holidays.

The ex now has her 4th partner and his daughters appear to be the current future carers.

You reach the stage when you’ve done enough.

Read the thread. OP has spent years encouraging them to plan for the future, trying to get them help, and informing them that she won't be taking on the responsibility of her adult sister. They aren't interested, and despite OPs warnings of what it will lead to, they continue to enable the problem. The more OP panders to them, the tougher it gets.

So yes, in similar circumstances I would absolutely reach a point where having the same discussion that OP has been having for years (decades?) would no longer be a good use of my time, and I would leave them to the life they've chosen. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

That doesn't mean you have to cut them off, that's ridiculous and again, OP has said multiple times that's not her intention.

God didn't make me, and no, none of your religious rhetoric means anything to me. I love and respect my parents because of who they are, not because I'm told that I should honour them 'just because' it says in a book that by doing so I'll live a long and happy life. How selfish.

Well, who says we’re not supposed to follow the example of Zeus? Meaning one has a duty to overthrow one’s parents and imprison them in the infernal regions.

I’ve already emigrated more than once tbf. If my parents were trying to foist off care of my sibling onto me, despite my clear and repeated refusal, then abso-fucking-lutely.

Not sticking around to allow yourself to be browbeaten by your parents into being a carer for your sibling does not mean you exist as an island or that you will fail
to find meaning in life (personally, I think there’s lots of meaning to be had in living your life in the way you want to). It’s not a binary where you are required to choose between maintaining those relationships and having no relationships. I’m sure you’re aware of that when you’re not aiming to employ emotional blackmail.

That is very much the point, regardless of whether you’re inclined to grasp it or not.

Yes, yes I know - how cruel, big mean, heartless, at fault for the ills of the word etc. Very predictable, overused, and frankly boring rhetoric you could have saved yourself the effort of typing. OP said no, which isn’t in fact an invitation to take your cues from her parents and attempt to cajole her into it.

I think OP should help them by organising some private help

Why? The sister is not suffering from an intellectual disability. She knows how to use the Internet.

She can make her own arrangements.
She just chooses not to.

If you read the thread, you'll see that the OP has made many sacrifices on her sister's behalf.
There's no need for her to do anything else. She need not feel guilty for refusing to help any further.

Well said.

Have you tried to search for speech therapists? You will most probably find some in your local area. There are all kinds of health professionals listed on the internet. We are told we have a free NHS when we need it, but a trip to the hospital means extra care hours (£25) and mileage. It can be £100 a trip depending on the wait and the department, so I tend to search locally and the cost is less. I think a lot of people don't realise that, for instance, if you need physio it could take weeks for an appointment, then the travel, and if you need help getting there, you might as well pay someone privately at about the same cost or little more. Same with dentist. My friend couldn't find an NHS dentist so went privately and found the cost of the filling was less than the NHS charges.

I have speech problems too. Mine are due to the salivary glands not working. There is synthetic saliva for that.

Do you belong to facebook? They have groups for everything. Just search for a group which members have the same difficulty as you. Click on the 'Join' button and agree to their conditions, which are not difficult, just the usual. Ask a question and someone will always have a reply for you, especially if they havet he same problems.

There are care groups where you can place a post asking for help. It depends how many are working in the area you live. Give the area code, not the whole postcode and say what you need.

There are also care agencies where self employed independent health workers advertise their hours and prices.

There is nothing in the OP's post which says she has made a slave of herself to help her parents and sister. She says she has offered some help to her parents only, but it turned out that the help they want is connected with the care of her sister, and that is something she doesn't want to do, and I don't have a problem with that. I responded to her post and am copying it here for you, because I initially posted in the light of my experiences.

I'm disabled. I have hidden - unseen - extras. People look at me and wonder why I use a wheelchair. Even some carers in the past have thought I could do more than I can. You actually cannot tell by looking at people how disabled they are, even if they wear splints. Sometimes you get afraid to smile and laugh with some people, because they think you can make a better effort.
I put up with it.

There is no way I would look completely dependent. I have done far too much to lose my independence to family and friends. I do think that your DPs should have help looking after your DS - but from outside the family and pay for it. Your DP should realise that. Perhaps they have made her dependent on them because they wanted to keep control?

I get benefit. If I pay someone, I call the shots. Perhaps your DPs are afraid of that? Perhaps DS would rather pay someone else? I certainly wouldn't want my siblings to take me over, nor would I ask the SS either. I pay my carers privately, and really, that is what should be happening with your DS and DPs.

Local social services are NOT free in most areas of UK. If they are now, they won't be for long. They use agencies which charge very highly, and employ carers on minimum wage. The charge on the council budget is the difference between what the agencies charge them and the wages of the carer, because that is passed on to the client. I meet my carer's half way, paying them just a bit less than the agencies charge me when I have to use them.

The SS provide help you have to pay for - by the quarter hour. How much do you think someone can do in that short time to help anyone? ALWAYS find someone privately - who is self employed, with qualifications in care, insurance, have their own car which is also covered. Also, make sure they have a visa/permit to work in UK. Don't be afraid to ask. You have to. The law expects you to. They also have to be registered with the police as far as committing crimes are concerned and for going into other people's homes.

You can get all that online once you have their name and details, and car registration number. They should give you all that so you can check. They can also print all that off themselves and give it to you, together with their driving licence to show their driving history. It takes minutes, so is no arduous task. If they do not give it, don't employ them.

There are facebook groups with ads for carers and cleaners. They will give you their details when you ask them to interview. They need work. You can place ads on these groups yourself if your family cannot. Just give your postcode or the town and you will get messages from those who are close enough.

If your DS doesn't receive UC and PIP she must apply for them. If your DPs are having physical and mental problems, they should apply for AA. All that can be applied to paying for outside independent help - privately. If you pay a bit more, they will be a lot kinder than those earning minimum wage and rushing about.
Your ds and dp will have to pay someone.

It is very important. I know if I am without help due to holidays etc. I go downhill quite fast. There are people who really love to look after others, and love their work. They would have no way of fulfilling their vocation if there was no one to look after. If they are appreciated, they will stay for years. Find someone with other work, perhaps courier, who meet other people.

Be flexible. Don't demand they come at the same time all the time unless they want to do that.
The only burden on you is to make sure they do all that and pay for it. You can always treat them to groceries or repairs if you think they may be short. It is surprising, though, what you can budget for once you realise that paying a carer privately is important.

There is nothing in the OP's post which says she has made a slave of herself to help her parents and sister

Really?
She has lost one personal relationship and one job as a result of trying to assist her sister.

It's no wonder that she has decided to step right back. She doesn't even like her sister (and why should she - I don't like mine, either).

We have an elderly and very dear aunt who has had some fairly minor problems (two or three undisputed TIAs). At times she has needed help/supervision, which has been willingly supplied, but now she is much better. What her children have realised is that she wants the freedom to run her own life without interference, but refuses to do anything tedious, or disagreeable like paying rent or insurance. She likes having people running round after her, too. It's tricky managing the situation.

And neither did I say she had made a slave of herself. What i did say is that anyone can only offer what they can offer and if that's not what someone wants then there is nothing more to be done. They have declined to look into outside assistance.

@TralalaTralalee

It really does sound exhausting, your sister and parents!! The apple hasn’t fallen too far from the tree.

Such a tricky situation be in. You are right to not be manipulated….

Grey rock indeed. I’d be tempted to even reduce contact a little, might mean you repeat yourself less. They clearly are not going to change, and are not proactive in setting up the future picture.

Good luck!

Ah, thanks, I've done all theses things - been looking for an advocate for years without any success on every platform there is. Speech therapy won't help my issues unfortunately. I need someone to speak on my behalf and really fight for the care I need. I do have one lead to follow up which I will do but mostly it's a dead end as my speech problems aren't linked to autism. Very frustrating. But I'll let everyone else get back to the thread.

Have you read the OP's post. She has lost a job and a relationship because of sister's incessant demands on her and refusal to even accept help towards independence. How about the toil on OP's mental health and the health of her children and husband. How is it being heartless advising her to prioritise herself and her own family after many futile years of to trying to help someone who is uninterested in helping themselves?

Ok, a really long response, bear with me! Thank you for all the replies - even to those who think I’m heartless and cruel - it’s really useful to read the different responses (and - in some cases - to realise how strongly I disagree!)

To answer some question:

• There is definitely no intellectual disability, and I have no reason to suspect neurodiversity or problems with executive function. The issue is partly learned helplessness, but mostly she does not want to do anything difficult or boring, pretends to be too anxious to do it (but refuses treatment for anxiety), enjoys manipulating others, feels entitled to others doing everything for her. Maybe this personality results from her experiences as a physically disabled person who has had to rely on others, maybe she’d always have been that way. Either way, I don’t like her or enjoy her company, and she has done and said some genuinely awful things over the years. I can be empathetic to the possible causes of her problems without letting those problems consume my life. If she was not disabled I would already have cut off contact with her, or be very very low contact.
• I have no intention of cutting off my parents and am happy to help them. She/they are using my willingness to help them as a gateway to try and make me help her with things she does not actually need help with, which I am not going to do.
• I would help her with physical care short term, in a crisis, as I would for my other siblings and my friends. But that is it.
• The sensible siblings are men, and have never been expected to do as much caring/helping. They’re also older than me so started families and set their boundaries earlier than I did, so now all the pushing is coming to me. They are completely supportive and tell me all the time not to get dragged back in to helping her.
• For the #bekind brigade: it’s very easy to be kind with other people’s time, energy and attention by telling me to keep trying to help her. You get to feel all smug that you are a lovely person who would always help. But you don’t know - because I haven’t told you - exactly what she wants, or what other demands I have on my time. How about being kind to me, with a job and family and perimenopause to deal with? To my husband, who doesn’t get enough of my time? To my primary school age kids who actually need me? To my colleagues who rely on me doing my job? She does not want to do boring or difficult things for herself. She does not want to receive personal care from a stranger. Why is what she wants more important than what I want or need, or what the other people in my life (who I actually like and chose!) want and need? It’s not. I’ve been manipulated and pressured into behaving like her wants are more important than my needs for decades already, and I’m done.

So here’s my strategy, and I’d be interested to know what everybody thinks.

I’m going to email my parents and difficult sister, copying in sensible siblings and say that:

• I would always help all 3 of them in a sudden crisis, by calling emergency adult social services and/or paramedics depending on the situation, and by helping them physically until those services arrive (if I can do so without neglecting my children). That is it. I will never do long-term or predictable physical care for any of them.

• For the next 3 months, I am available to help them with transitioning to a more suitable long-term arrangement by helping them advertise and recruit a carer/team of carers, and helping them engage with local services. After that I’m taking a promotion and will not be available to help with this.

• It is frustrating to me when they ask me to help with things that I know they can do. So I am available for the next 3 months to help with things that they genuinely cannot do for themselves, but if they ask me for anything else I will reply with no, and will not enter into any further conversations or justifications about this, because I am tired of repeating myself.

• Long term I look forward to spending time with our parents, and hope that little sister and I can learn to get along better once I am not feeling pressured to help her with tasks that she can either do or pay somebody else to do. The relationship I have with my sensible siblings is that we love each other, enjoy each other’s company but are not in regular contact or reliant on each other and that is what I want with little sister, a more adult and independent relationship. But I am informing them now that I am point blank never going to be her carer or assistant and if they keep pressuring me to do this it is likely to destroy our relationship completely.

• None of this is negotiable or up for discussion, this is my position and they can now do with that what they will.

Thoughts? Accusations that I’m a monster? Suggestions for how to brace myself for the torrent of attempted manipulation that I expect will follow this?

Nope, no judgement here OP. Your parents, together with your sister, should have had this situation sorted as soon as they realised that their ability to cope was sliding. I think this is a good set of boundaries and I hope you get sorted.

Hi OP.

I have a feeling that your 3 months will just get extended and extended and extended.

I can't see any of them really believing that at the end of the three months, you'll suddenly stop being available.

They will probably view your message as you weakening.

Well, that's what I imagine, anyway. They do not understand that you have your own family who needs you. They're entitled. Only their needs matter.

Thoughts? Accusations that I’m a monster? Suggestions for how to brace myself for the torrent of attempted manipulation that I expect will follow this?

You're not a monster, but you're still allowing your parents and sister to weaken your position.

Yes, there will be a torrent of manipulation if you adopt this course of action.

Far better to rip off the plaster and say no, right now. It takes many, many months to get care/carers/cleaners into place. Your three months will never end.

I suggest you are very firm right now, and decline to help in any way at all.

There’s a risk of that, you’re right. I have worried that entering into any kind of conversation about future care would be taken as me weakening or being willing to discuss it.

But I suppose for my peace of mind, I want to know that I really have definitely and clearly told them my position, so they can take appropriate actions. If they choose to ignore me or assume I don’t mean it, that’s on them not on me, does that make sense? Anytime they ask me to do stuff I can just forward them the email again and remind them that the 3 month deadline has passed.

DH has offered to temporarily take my phone and intercept all messages from them once we hit the deadline so it really will be a flat refusal to do anything, they have never managed to guilt or manipulate him!

That’s interesting, I thought that would be long enough to hire somebody but then we’ve only hired Nannies before and maybe that’s easier? I don’t think I could stand to just do it with no warning, that feels so harsh to my parents.

Thank you :)

Appointing a nanny is much easier than trying to find suitable carers.

No judgement here apart from @Rosscameasdoody quoting the whole damn post and I agree that 3 months is far too long and by the end they will have got used to you being on speed dial and it'll be harder to rip the plaster off.

One month - tops!