what dealing with elderly parents has made you think you will do differently?

[GenieGenealogy]

DH and I are the classic sandwich generation at the moment. Early 50s, he's still working full time, I'm self-employed part-time, we have three kids still at home at the end of school / uni stage. My dad died a couple of years ago, the three surviving parents are all in their 80s. We live in a different city from our parents, we are about 2 hours from my mum, 4 hours from DH's parents. DH's sister lives very close to her parents, my brother is even further away than we are.

This summer has been a blur of dealing with kids who didn't do as well as expected in school exams, trying and failing to get a job for another child, breaking up with first serious boyfriend for another. My mother had a planned stay in hospital and sibling and I had to tag team looking after her post-discharge and I was away from home quite a bit. Then DH's mother fell, broke a bone and was also admitted. Their house is really unsuitable for someone with mobility issues, packed with "stuff" and FIL cannot cope with the logistics and is panicking about managing. DH has been backwards and forwards the last 4 weekends to support his parents and sister.

So last night we had a long talk about how this situation has brought home what we want for our older years and how to minimise the impact on our own kids. We have already made wills and have both health and financial POAs set up - we did this a few years ago after a horrible incident at DH's work where someone was seriously brain injured in an accident and his wife seriously struggled to access money.

We have also decided that mid-60s (so 12-15 years time) we are moving out of our current house which is 4 beds over 3 floors. When the kids are gone it will be too big, too many stairs. We want something all on one level, whether that's a flat or bungalow. Preferably with a garden someone else has the responsibility of maintaining.

Anyone else making similar choices??

Think about the right time to move or down size.

My parents moved 20 years ago which was a great choice at the time. When they were active and 70, friends all still alive, still able to drive etc.

But, despite saying then that they were looking to move closer to me, they are slightly further away. 1 hour on a good day by car.

And they are not going to move house now they are 90 and want and need more help from family, more frequently. So a care home would be the next move.

And that we all want to die peacefully in our sleep (preferably at the same time as your spouse) but that's unlikely to happen. In fact strokes, heart attacks and falls happen. And if you live like that you are playing Russian roulette. And then you won't want to call an ambulance when a crisis (many crises) inevitably occur.

My Gran lived until 96, ten years with dementia and the last 7 in a care home. My mum now aged 85 has dementia and looks as if she will need full time care. Having worked hard all her life she has a lot of unused, unenjoyed, savings which now will all go to paying a care home, nothing left over which is ok, its her money but it is not what she would have wanted. So, as soon as i reach state pension age, i will be downsizing my home and buying something which will give me a large sum which i will then give straight to my kids to pay off their mortgages early and I will live quite happily and well on my state and private pension. lt is highly likely that i will develop dementia at which point i will be out of here. i will not languish in a care home putting my kids through stress and upset watching me fade away like i have done with my gran and now my mum. if the assisted suicide bill is not in place by then Dignitas it is. My kids know of my plans and are supportive of my wishes. I may of course go well before then of another disease but hope not yet.

I thought that Dignitas doesn't accept people with dementia. But it seems there've been a few in the very very early stages that have been accepted. It was controversial though, and I suspect it'd be difficult to be taken on

Edited because my initial post was incorrect.

If you give away most of your money at pension age and then need a state funded care home the council will pursue your children for the money as it classed as deprivation of assets. It's not the same as the seven year inheritance rule btw.

There is no time limit on deprivation of assets.

No it won't. The council will only challenge your spending if it happens after you've been given a diagnosis that indicates that you will need care in the future.

It's not about age, it's about diagnosis and predicted care needs.

From Age UK:
The council has to prove that gifts were

1. significantly motivated by avoiding care costs
2. you knew you'd need care and support at the time you got rid of your assets
3. you were expecting to have to contibute towards the cost of your care.

I agree about the house. I like having my things around me, and I don't want to live in a sterile environment for 20 years just in case I die suddenly and the kids have to sort it out.

DH and I sorted out my mum's 4 bedroom house in a few days. It was a case of prioritising - we went through absolutely everything, and made a pile of things to keep (items of value, not very many of those!, photos, and a few sentimental things or heirlooms), things to throw out (broken irons etc.) and then we got a house clearance firm to take away the rest. We live miles away and couldn't spend months doing it bit by bit and agonising over what to do with each vase or book, or wondering whether we could make a fiver here or a tenner there trying to sell things.

We are not living in a sterile environment. We still have all the important things. Just not the stuff Eg no loft full of useless stuff and cardboard boxes from tvs we no longer own, no garage full of just in case wood and jars of screws, no shed full of kids’ garden toys mouldering away, no three spare bedooms full of clothes we’ll never wear and furniture we don’t need.

But rest assured I still have lots of books, pictures, mementos from the kids childhoods, photos in frames and a really comfortable home that people love to visit.

So many helpful things here. I’d say make it plain in a file where all your utilities and insurances and house deeds etc are kept.

Oh I'd love to get rid of some of that stuff! We could set up an ironmongery with the spare hardware we've got. Getting DH on board is a different matter...

There may be no "official" timescale, but the longer the time period between giving away or using funds/assets and requiring care, the less chance of them successfully challenging, as there needs to be some kind of link/anticipation of requiring care. An otherwise healthy 60 year old, which no family history of genetic issues will easily win any challenge by a local authority 20 years later when they need care (as long as any gifts were genuine and with no reservations or use of the donor)! Conversely if there is some kind of genetic link that makes needing care highly likely, then there's always the risk of successful challenge if it was known about at the time of the gifts.

With most care home challenges, the old adage of "if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it's a duck" applies. Most successful challenges are obvious as to the reasoning and what the donor hoped to achieve by the gift (i.e. care cost avoidance). Likewise, genuine gifts (or downsizing to "enjoy" their savings/funds themselves), are also pretty easy to see are genuine for the benefit of the donor/their family at a time when risks of needing future care, decades away, were no higher than any random/average person.

Likewise, not only does OH have a garage full of tools and other hardware, he's got a garden shed full of stuff AND a spare room in our business office is also full of tools/hardware. It's amazing what you can accumulate over 30 years of owning your own home and doing most of your own DIY.

He's got more tools etc than tradesmen we've had for harder jobs, often lending them tools or giving them random bits and pieces that they didn't have in their vans to save them having to trot off to the builder's merchants!

It's amazing that he seems to know exactly what he's got and where it is, despite the garage, spare office and shed looking like a bomb site. He reckons he's got thousands of pounds of "stuff" and has given our son and myself strict instructions not to throw it in a skip as it will all "come in handy one day". Trouble is, he's right of course, and our son will be grateful of it when he buys his own home. It's just a matter of where he'll store it all in the meantime

We've been clearing out FIL's garage (who died 15 years ago) after MIL died earlier this year. He had a garage full of hardware and tools too! OH spent days in there sorting through it all and kept coming out excitedly showing us various different tools, fixings, etc that he didn't have so now we've another pile of "stuff" in the garage, including huge metal clamps (for picture framing I believe) a workbench vice, a pillar drill and grinding machine! Heaven knows what he thinks he'll use them for! Thankfully he "skipped" the lathe as he couldn't get it to work properly - it was a huge heavy ugly thing.

Ironically, I'm making good progress with the house itself, doing loads of decluttering of cupboards, loft, etc., scanning old picture albums, and organising household paperwork (utilities, banks, investments etc)., but OH just isn't on the same page with his tools and hardware!

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but when I have the money - definitely a funeral plan! Makes such a HUGE difference to those initial days/weeks and means those left behind can concentrate on supporting each other.

I have similar DH. I’ve recently retired and have made it my mission to declutter everywhere between now and December…first stop, the loft! Which, while it has a good ladder, lighting and is fully floored, I’d hate to be rooting about up there in my later years. My intention is to get it down to less than a quarter of the space being used. Imagine my surprise when I ventured up and it’s rammed with DH ‘treasures’! His thing is music so it’s all CDs, instruments and vinyl records, cassette tapes and books! So he has the same timeframe as me to do something about it (otherwise he knows I’ll go up and do it for him lol).

Question if I may around these direct cremations you can take out a plan with. My understanding is that you can have them take loved ones away and deal with cremation without a service etc (this would be both our preference). For those that have this in plan…how do you communicate with family/friends that there won’t be that ‘final farewell’?!

Funerals are for the living, not the dead - you can't stop people coming together to do what they need to do to say goodbye.

My DM took against one of her brothers in her later years and was adamant he shouldn't be at her funeral. We didn't tell the poor bloke and of course he came along with her other siblings.

My instructions to my DC are to do whatever feels right for them at the time. I have a file of suggestions, which they may choose to follow.

Of course you can stop people coming.

For a start, you can simply not tell them until afterwards, no need to make public announcements in the newspaper etc.

You can also make it clear that it's a private (or none at all) ceremony.

It's written into our wills that we want neither a formal service nor a wake. All we want at our funerals is the surviving spouse and our son.

We've just done the same for mother in law. Just me, OH and our son and her other daughter. We told distant relatives, friends, etc afterwards.

We all absolute detest funerals and wakes and have managed to avoid going to most over the past few decades. Only go to the ones we have to, i.e. close family.

This is more along lines of approach DH and I want.

If they ask, tell them it’s a direct cremation so there’s no service or wake.

Suggest they organise a meal (or similar) to remember the person if they want to - most won’t bother as it’s more effort than turning up at a wake paid for by someone else.

If they don’t ask, don’t say anything.

I think there is a reason all cultures have some kind of funeral rite.
I think they are very much for those who are left behind.
I think it is OK for people to find them upsetting in the moment, but it gives closure in a structured way to support that we can then move on from.

I personally wouldn't be happy if my parents said no funeral in a misguided attempt to spare us the cost / upset.

However I do respect other people's rights to choose not to attend if they feel it is right for them.

We’ve just done a small funeral and then a meal out in the past. So, no more than about eight people. It meant there was some kind of closure for people who’d been close to the person.

The surgeon refused to do a hip operation on my elderly mother, as he said her chances of survival and proper recovery were poor, due to general ill health and, specifically, weakness in her upper body, meaning rehab would be difficult. So since her last fall she has been pretty much immobile.

Yeah, my mum used to complain about the council tax - she lived alone in a huge house that was much bigger than my family's house. I just said if she didn't like it, she could move!

Anyway, this thread has prompted me to make some lists and collate information in case of my death or incapacitation. Some was done already, but some wasn't.

I will add that it is very hard for children to talk to parents about this - just what do you say? "Hey mum, do you have funeral wishes? Because you're not very well and you might die any minute!" I think not. Some years ago I suggested she gave up driving, as she was a danger on the roads, but it went down like a lead balloon. So it needs to come from us, we shouldn't wait to be asked or told.

@Chickenpoxworry @DuesToTheDirt
Similar situation with my Dad, he was advised to have his knees done 20 years ago but he didn’t-so now his mobility is restricted, he uses a walker, etc.

If I’m advised to have a knee operation, I’ll have it done right away. A friend had one last year at 52 and has recovered really well.

Agree, given the recent half year with my DPs. Until a month or 2 ago, DDad in his 80s walked daily around a local beauty spot, very determined and can outpace me and DMum. A diagnosis of lymphoma, taking about 5-6 weeks, meant that his whole lower body swelled up due to the condition causing circulation difficulties. Very quickly, walking and even sitting in a car got regularly hard. It means he cannot safely use either bedroom or bathroom, and sleeps on the sofa using urine bottles and a commode because those rooms are upstairs.
They were fine - until they weren't.

Stairs are hazardous regardless of age. DSs DF/my exDP died falling down a flight of just 8 stairs, he was 49.