what dealing with elderly parents has made you think you will do differently?

[GenieGenealogy]

DH and I are the classic sandwich generation at the moment. Early 50s, he's still working full time, I'm self-employed part-time, we have three kids still at home at the end of school / uni stage. My dad died a couple of years ago, the three surviving parents are all in their 80s. We live in a different city from our parents, we are about 2 hours from my mum, 4 hours from DH's parents. DH's sister lives very close to her parents, my brother is even further away than we are.

This summer has been a blur of dealing with kids who didn't do as well as expected in school exams, trying and failing to get a job for another child, breaking up with first serious boyfriend for another. My mother had a planned stay in hospital and sibling and I had to tag team looking after her post-discharge and I was away from home quite a bit. Then DH's mother fell, broke a bone and was also admitted. Their house is really unsuitable for someone with mobility issues, packed with "stuff" and FIL cannot cope with the logistics and is panicking about managing. DH has been backwards and forwards the last 4 weekends to support his parents and sister.

So last night we had a long talk about how this situation has brought home what we want for our older years and how to minimise the impact on our own kids. We have already made wills and have both health and financial POAs set up - we did this a few years ago after a horrible incident at DH's work where someone was seriously brain injured in an accident and his wife seriously struggled to access money.

We have also decided that mid-60s (so 12-15 years time) we are moving out of our current house which is 4 beds over 3 floors. When the kids are gone it will be too big, too many stairs. We want something all on one level, whether that's a flat or bungalow. Preferably with a garden someone else has the responsibility of maintaining.

Anyone else making similar choices??

Of course I’m not advocating pessimism @Flossflower , just clear headed practicality. My mom was like you are now at 70. At 88, not so much! She has a house big enough to host us all, but isn’t physically able to do the hosting so we all congregate at my sister’s house and mom’s house and garden is too much for her. The trick, of course, is to find the sweet spot for making changes when you’re well enough to make them positively and proactively, rather than them being forced on you.

This thread is really sobering. We want to move next year closer to two of our children but not close enough so they can pop in regularly. In the last year or two we have had health issues (64 and 66) that have made me quite concerned about the future. Small things can have quite an impact and a knock on effect. Suddenly Inam feeling quite vulnerable. I also have an 88 year old mother who is going downhill fast in a flat with stairs. The burden mainly falls on me and when we move she will have no family to help. My brother who lives 20 miles away does nothing to help.

I have a loft stuffed with clutter that I am already feeling unable to cope with. The house is bigger than we need but when our children stay we need the space .They don’t have the space to host us. We need to get things sorted now and find an appropriate house to move to but we’re moving hundreds of miles and haven’t clarified exactly what area to choose either.

I agree.

My parents were fit and healthy. My father drove and my mum went to clubs and was independent. However, within eighteen months, mum has had a terminal cancer diagnosis and dad has a permanent catheter and Parkinson’s. He no longer drives.

I am going to plan for the best and prepare for the worst. Unfortunately, my parents are waiting for things to happen (mainly facilitated by me). As an only child, I will not do this to my children.

Please please do the downstairs bathroom extension now, before you actually need it, and make sure that it has enough space to maneuvre round it with a walking frame, and enough space for a mobility frame / support that attaches to the toilet. A large, walk-in shower (that can accommodate a stool) that has a flush threshold (ie similar to a wet room type thing) is also a very good idea. In my experience (of parents and in-laws), when mobility goes, it tends to happen very quickly - maybe a serious diagnosis, maybe a fall - but over a short space of time (without much warning) one of you may be in the situation of having to have daily flannel washes and a commode / pads, all in your living-room-cum-bedroom. Would this be carers doing that, or your partner / children? How will that affect your relationships? I think planning ahead so that you can be helped into the bathroom where you can sit and shower yourself, and then safely transfer to the toilet (with maybe a built-in bidet and dryer function so that no-one needs to help wiping etc), is a really good way to maintain your independence, dignity, and quality of relationships with close family members.

And of course, when one of you does have a serious diagnosis, or a fall, and you are both in extremis (maybe lots of stress / lots of time at hospital etc) it suddenly becomes almost impossible to plan / manage and cope with building work.

So please do it now - before you need to!!

@FeelingOldOldOld well said. @Flossflower ”I will not think about it until I need to’. Please read that back to yourself and realise how silly it sounds. When you ‘need to think about it’ there will possibly be a crisis happening and getting major work done then is another added stress. As @FeelingOldOldOld described this is much more than popping a downstairs loo and shower in - it requires major work IF you are determined to stay where you are. Each to their own but my mind boggles at anyone staying in a house not fit for future issues….be it too big to maintain/heat/clean/navigate around.

As pp have said i think (on train so haven't rtft) there is a world of difference between being 70 and being 85. Even between being 80 and 85 tbh.
All my parents and ils got to 80 without any problems but started to detetiorate around 82-85.
There are so many on threads like this one who get to their early-mid 70s and think they have completely cracked aging.
Those of us with ancient parents know differently (fil 93, mum 88)

From recent experience I would say:

-Don’t have rigid division of household roles. It leads to situations like unnecessary stress when the one who does all the cooking is ill and the other one doesn’t know how, and bereaved people with no idea about household finances

-get finances in order and as simple as possible with paperwork easy to find. If you’ve opened up new Isas every year think about consolidating so it’s easier for whoever has to sort out.

-Declutter!

-Think ahead for adaptations to the house and what you’d need if mobility was limited e.g. space for downstairs shower

-Get adaptations as soon as you start to need them e.g a rail on stairs

-Use it or lose it. Be as active as you can

-Being involved in lots of things locally pays dividends for avoiding isolation later on

-Don’t assume the one of you in poorest physical health will die first

-Talk to your children about things to consider if one of you dies e.g where the financial info is, what support the other one might need (especially if you have one who needs reminding to fulfil basic social obligations)

@BlueLegume @FeelingOldOldOld
I do not need to build an extension to have a wet room. A woman in my road( house built to same design) had one fitted in 2 weeks.
I think the problem with a lot of elderly people is that they will not have carers in. My children will absolutely not be doing my care. I would be quite happy to have carers, cleaners and gardener in. Pick up laundry services are available where I live.

My parents had serious (and devastating) declines in mobility / health (completely out of the blue) in mid-70s and late 70s. From what I’ve seen of my in-laws (who are older), they had reasonable mobility / independence in 70s (could still travel abroad etc), but this does really drop away in the 80s.

So ultimately it is a bit of a lottery how much of a ‘health-span’ that you get. Might be til 80s, or might only be til 70s (or 60s)..

So it has made me realise that if me and my dh want to have a decent retirement (with some travel / leisure / spending time with family) then you can’t leave it too late! (I sometimes worried that my dh will continue working into his 80s, as he is really passionate about his job, but I think (having experienced our parents’ declining health) that he is re-thinking that a bit, and will hopefully cut down in work much earlier)..

I am going to plan for the best and prepare for the worst.

I think that’s a great way to think of it. Not pessimistic, just practical.

My father was a very vital, energetic man and then suddenly got terminal cancer at 74 which finished him off in a matter of months. You never know what’s round the corner.

That happened with us too.. df in his 70s, really strong, fit and healthy, spent a few months losing weight, then was diagnosed with terminal cancer and was gone within 6 weeks. It was such a shock..

I did not intend this thread to be sobering or pessimistic. Just realistic.

What prompted the thread was the contrast in the situations between my parent (who lives all on one level and has things like a flip down seat in the house) and my inlaws situation. Inlaws were very much "it's all fine" until it wasn't. At the point when someone has a serious fall and is hospitalised, it's hugely stressful for them and the family to swing into action with decluttering, organising fitting of stairlifts, getting different furniture, organising a cleaner, sorting out supermarket deliveries etc etc all in the limited time period before discharge home - and moreso when adult children are living hours away and have jobs and families.

Had the person admitted 6 months ago that the stairs were an issue and they were struggling to get off the sofa, decisions could have been taken at a more leisurely rate which would have led to less stress all round.

It's not a hard a fast rule that you move into a flat or bungalow when you are 65. But it should be a hard and fast rule to THINK about your future potential needs and consider making small changes or considering what you might do if you couldn't manage the stairs or needed to use a walking frame.

It's all very well saying you wouldn't expect your children to care for you and that's fine, but when you're in hospital with a broken hip who is it that is going to be spending hours on the motorway to get to your house to be there for the stairlift man, or declutter the attic?

Thanks Genie, for my part, I think it's been a helpful thread.

I'm the only child of my DPs. They live in the house I moved to when very small, in 1982, and there are no alterations that can be made to its ground floor, unless maybe a small porch. The staircase has one wall that can't have anything fixed to it, so one rail is all there will be, no stairlifts. Public transport provision has been no problem for years, but has been cut back greatly and is now a situation that stresses my DPs out.

It's not just about stairs, it is about how possible it is to make it work for being able to cope as things change without you knowing how severely, or when. How to access friends, pharmacies, medical care (to reach one of 2 urban hospitals, which they have to do weekly for 8.30 in the morning to spend quite a long day there, it's a drive in non-busy conditions of 40-45 minutes regardless of which place. As a taxi ride that's £35 min where they live, so £70 for these treatments, and sometimes, even 'just' blood tests which are otherwise not sent through by closer places).

I am about 4hrs by train away and have DC at school so it's not just a case of being able to help in every way I could. These things to engage with are partly about allowing some confidence in 'coping' (for those in the thick of it and those who see the shortfalls from the outside), and partly to actually have some happiness too (friends, coffees out, spontaneity). I'd honestly give anything to be sure of both of these parts, but it does take cooperation and even a willingness to talk about them, to find good help, and then take action. Without that, honestly, nobody's really content.

Following on from pps, I would also say that something I will do is make sure I have conversations with my children as I get older, about all these difficult issues (re: plans in case of ill health, mobility, bereavement etc). I have found it is virtually impossible to start this sort of conversation with a parent, when the parent is quite in denial about future needs. So the conversations didn’t happen - which has caused a huge amount of difficulty now). I think in some ways these type of conversations should be normalised. Frankly, everyone is going to die at some point, and most people will find their functional ability will change, either with age or serious illness / disability; so these sort of conversations (and plans) should be a normal part of life.

Well done for a really good, interesting, useful and thought-provoking thread.

DH and I are 60-ish - both sets of parents dead. I see friends of mine exhausted, driving huge round trips to help very old parents whilst juggling trying to help adult children with small children who may also be a horrible journey away.

Yes, as PP have says:
Declutter/ Swedish death clean
Get yourself - AHEAD OF TIME - into a safe and sustainable living situation (whether that’s downsizing or adapting current home). Think about size, stairs, a walk-in shower, no rugs to trip over etc etc. Also, walk to get a pint of milk, local access to hospital etc.
Streamline and simplify finances
Get wills and LPAs in place
Put together an ‘In The Event Of My Death’ file with all the important paperwork in

But I think that being close to family is such a huge thing. It’s obviously not possible for everyone to just up-sticks and leave their hometown to move near to adult children who may have to move, themselves. But it’s honestly such a MASSIVE factor in how very, veru hard or slightly less hard than it could be when you’re at the business end of needing a bit of support. I’m just saying it’s something to consider if possible.

That’s what my mum said until dementia struck. She won’t allow anyone in the house now, sleeps with her cat’s ashes and the place is filthy. My stepdad can barely walk now because of a serious back problem.

They became almost unrecognisable within about 2 years.

One of the reasons we have downsized and are future-proofing as much as we practically can.

Sadly, not all of us have adult children we can move to be close to. Some of have to face this alone.

Sure. I’ve got a dear friend who is long-term single and childless and I know she worries about how she will manage if she needs help in old age.
Maybe it’s worth considering moving into some sort of ‘sheltered accommodation’/ assisted living place before there is a crisis so you’re in the right place if you need care to be stepped up x

@MrsSkylerWhite point taken but as there are 2 of us it is unlikely that we will both become incapable at the same time (not impossible I know!) When one of us starts to deteriorate then that would be a good time to start getting rid of most of our stuff.
@GenieGenealogy nobody will have to declutter our attic or indeed our house as I am sure our children will call house clearance as per our instructions.
Most of the problems on the ‘elderly parents’ topic on this forum are regarding parents who won’t let their children bring in outside care and the children (usually daughters) care too much about their parents to really push the issue. I know, that if I need it, care will be coming from outside because I am adamant that I don’t want my children to do care. Believe me, even if I have dementia and change my mind, my children are strong willed and will override me. For various reasons, my sister and I are LC with my mother, who is in her 90s. My brother visits once a week with her shopping. Agencies can be dealt with over the phone. My mother knows that there is no point refusing outside help as nothing would get done.
I also think this is very much a financial problem as well. We are in a fortunate position to be able to afford carers, a cleaner etc without having to go through social services. This will save us and our children a lot of hassle.

That is my plan really. It's just hard not to worry or start imagining scenarios where that sort of place no longer exists. I am sure they will though.

I so agree. I find it really hard to talk to my mother about these things. She is getting more and more forgetful and emotionally dis regulated. I couldn’t get her to accept that she is not safe to drive so I reported her to the DVLA. I just can’t deal with her . It’s really hard .

I plan to get a cleaner in a long time before we “need”one.
Its good to be used to having someone in the house before you are fully resistant to the idea. Also means you don’t have to rely on your adult DC telling you when your house is getting dirty and then somehow miraculously expecting it to clean itself- but oh no you don’t expect your adult Dcs to do it - except you probably do.

Don't save it until the decline. You'll be too absorbed in dealing with the decline to deal with the procrastinated life-shit. Get yourself into a good position e.g. suitable house/ location while you can. (Don't be elderly in a listed building)

DM talked the talk about moving 30 years ago... she's still there in her deeply unsuitable, excessively large, difficult to maintain, hoarded house. She is not going anywhere voluntarily now.

I'm happy with my house. The stairs could take a stair lift, or the downstairs toilet adapted to a wet room. There's enough ground floor space for a bedroom. There's community facilities in a short walk and a bus route to town. I could live without the car.

Keep functional with technology changes. DM is pretty deaf (credit to her, she did accept hearing aids a good while back) but it really doesn't help when her communications are a landline that she can't hear. She was too luddite to to mobile phones and texting.

De-clutter little and often. Don't save arbitary stuff for the next generation. They rarely want it and have their own lives.

Have the home in good condition to get you through old age. Things don't last forever, but a lot of older people don't want disruption in their later years.

DH and I have an age gap, so my odds of being widowed are fairly high. The plus side of DM being widdowed prematurely was that she was young enough (50s) to adapt to some extent. But on top of grief, she still had no idea how the "blue jobs" and finances worked. Don't be too dependent on your spouse's skill set without understanding it.

A crisis can always happen, but there's a lot of longevity in my family so it's reasonable to consider that reaching my 90s is a viable possibility.

I always have looked after my health and while there are never any guarentees, I am doing what is reasonably viable to reduce lifestyle factors of poor health. Elderly relatives did usually keep getting out and about and stay sociable as long as was reasonably viable.

Oh and don't hoard cats