Should more people prepare for old age?

[Glasscabinet]

Bear with me on this one.

Off the back of two thoughts: PIL have received a sizeable inheritance and have asked us to have a think of what we’d like as they’d like to pay for something for us (car/something for our house/holiday). I won’t side this thread by they’ll be hidden strings involved so we’ve declined the offer three times.

But joking aside, what I’d really like them to spend the money on is planning for their old age. They’re both mid 70s, okayish health (FIL has had cancer twice in the last decade) but neither have had a particularly healthy lifestyle which is starting to show. Supposedly nobody in FIL’s side has reached 80; I doubt FIL will either. But they still manage two long haul holidays a year (for longer periods as they take them slower these days).

I can preempt that we’ll get the call within the next five years that FIL has died and MIL cannot cope alone in her four-bed-house. She hates her own company and relies on FIL for everything (no online shopping/cannot put fuel in the car/very much panics in any situation/problem…) The house has a downstairs toilet but no shower, not wheelchair friendly, huge garden and the area isn’t the safest- doubtful MIL would feel comfortable going to the shops in a scooter etc. The house is also four bedrooms of clutter.

Also reading another thread of when elderly family need to move it’s too late. Basically you’ve got to be pretty capable of doing a big move and life can change in an instant.

We’ve got a young family and I doubt it’s ’complete’. I feel almost obliged to spell it out to them that they can’t be relying on us as it’s just not feasible. MIL makes a lot of comments that we need to move closer as they want to help us with childcare. I feel myself biting my tongue that they need to sort out their arrangements first.

I’m going to downsize and spend all my money so if I was you, I’d accept gratefully. I’m not sure what you want them to do?

You've said a lot about what you think they should do but it doesn't sound as though you've actually spoken to them; don't you think that would be a good place to start? Old age creeps up on people and they probably don't feel old yet.

Yes I think so
i had similar with my parents, their house was cluttered/hoarded, no downstairs bathroom and completely unsuitable when my mother couldn't manage any more due to dementia, there was no option other than into a nursing home. If only they'd downsized sometime in their 70's and had a damn good clear out in the process...
clearing out their house was just unspeakably awful.
i lost my DH 3 weeks ago to an agressive cancer and am currently having a big sort out of his things which will inevitable lead to sorting out my stuff as well. There's a lot to work through as we've lived here over 25 years.

then I'm going to sort out a "death file" for my DDs in the hope that when the time comes they'll have a clear idea of my wishes and all the admin that will need doing rather than them having to try and work it out themselves.
are they assuming you will be the dutiful DIL/provide free care, because I'd personally be nipping that in the bud and managing expectations

Everyone would benefit from reading the lovely Swedish Death Cleaning book.

Currently running around being the adulty adult for various relatives, yes, definitely sort your life out. I'll have to as no kids...

Yes. If they have the space they should have installed a downstairs shower room and bedroom. Or fitted a stairlift. Regular gardener and cleaner too.

You can't anticipate what their needs will be. Sometimes it's better just to leave things as they are and deal with what comes up. Moving can be stressful for anyone never mind older people. We knew my mum was getting dementia and decided it was better for her to stay where she was, surrounded by all the things, familiar neighbours etc. My dad got a stair lift put in within a week when he needed one.

Have you tried taking their wishes into account? After all it's their lives and their money.

You could reasonably suggest they buy a house with a smaller (easier to care for) garden. That they move closer to facilities such as doc/dentists/shops etc. If they move closer to you then it will make life easier for your dp seeing his parents.

But be tactful. If they are affluent, installing a downstairs shower room or a stair lift really isn't a big deal, and you are likely to offend them by implying they will be incapable in a few years.

I love this book, and the author's idea that deathcleaning is essentially you doing something kind for the loved ones that you leave behind.

@Glasscabinet do check out the various threads on Elderly Parents. You will see this is a common theme. Would love to know the circumstances @Meadowfinch dealt with. Walk a mile in some of our shoes and all that.

I am firmly in the camp of accepting life has phases and you need to plan for them (emergencies not withstanding). We do this for education, having children, career planning, housing etc. Why not retirement and older years?

Having experienced both parents succumbing to frailty at the same time, with no plans in place and self funding the strain on everyone around them is intolerable. I will make plans for my care. I couldn't do this to my kids.

But.

I doubt you will shift other people's thinking. It is an intensely personal issue and eventually people seem to get to the stage where they don't have the gumption to make the shift. My parents and my in laws were / are in complete denial.

I doubt you’ll get them to change much, and ultimately it has to come from them.

What you can do is make very clear what you can (and can’t do), encourage them very strongly to make POA and set boundaries.

Mine was in cloud cuckoo land and thought I’d be able to take weeks’ worth of paid compassionate leave to deal with any sort of event in her life (at a distance too!). She did not appreciate the conversation when I pointed out that compassionate leave is two days when she dies! But I can see several years on that has begun to sink in, especially as she’s seen what happens to friends who have local children but full time jobs!

I’ve also laid it on pretty thick about the difference in retirement age now and how I’m paying the mortgage rather than working for pin money. .

I don’t think you can change them and you will probably be the same when you get older. We are in our early 70s and are not about to downsize any time soon. We enjoy having the extra space as we look after our grandchildren and it is nice we have spare rooms for when they stay.
I have said this many times on MN but Hell would freeze over before we would want our children looking after us when we can’t cope. We have already had that conversation. Our children have told us that if we need it they would organise care but not do it. I would hope to reduce the amount of possessions we have before we get too old but we have hobbies and quite frankly the kids can get in house clearance when we go.

I wouldn't waste any energy or time with this. People just rarely plan for old age. I don't get why. Even my DH who has been very financially astute regarding pensions, has cleaned out the loft entirely and has a ' in the event of my death " file says he never wants to move out of our 5 bed 4 bathroom house. I however would like to once youngest has left home and would like to live closer to local amenities, however my pension situation is dreadful. Cross the bridge when you come to it but I found it useful to let my parents know I would have to deal with their home using house clearance company which spooked them I think. I think this is a phenomenon affecting middle aged people atm as in the past people had less stuff, money and often didn't own their homes. My grandparents rented for example.

My grandma (102) has done all her death cleaning. Moved out of her big house to a studio flat in sheltered accommodation when she was still a young 80-year-old. Moved to care home after a fall when she was 99. Now living in that sterile care home, with none of her things around her, often being made to wear other people’s clothes when care home is behind with the laundry and with no kitchen for cooking (her passion) It will make things easier for us when she dies but it’s frankly really sad and I can’t blame people for sticking their heads in the sand and not preparing for all this.

I think so. I am 38 and I think about my old age every day, although that's probably because I am an only child and have no children, so I know one day I will be all alone. 😞

I am trying to reduce down my possessions, save money for the retirement village I hope to move to, lose a bit of weight and eat better and develop my friendships. I am also working on developing some new hobbies to keep myself busy in my older years.

I’m just in the process of clearing out my late mother’s house. She had lived there for 50 years ( the last 34 after the early death of my father). There is SO much to do as although she wasn’t a hoarder in the true sense of the word, a lot of stuff was kept “just in case”. She never wanted to leave her home and I ended up living with her after her cancer diagnosis to facilitate this. I’ve decided that I don’t want to do the same to my children and so although I’m only in my mid 60’s ( DH is a little older), we are planning to downsize now whilst we are still able, to a house that hopefully will be future proof. We will have a good clear out too, getting rid of unnecessary belongings so that everything will be left as easy as possible

I would bet my last £ that people on here moaning about their parents / PILs will be in exactly the same position when they are older. Life creeps up on you, one day you can run 5K in 30 minutes, the next your knees are going and getting upstairs is a task you don’t undertake often.
My parents lived the lives they pretty much wanted to as they got older. Yes, we had to rally round at times, and got annoyed when DM failed to grasp the basics of her smartphone, but so what? They were, in the main, happy. Our parents look after us when we’re children, many still support us as adults with their grandchildren, or with finances, then situations change and we begin to support them as they age.

I am going to declare myself in old age and soon as I hit 60. I don't care if that sounds young. I have seen how quickly health can fail. I will be moving to a retirement village (hopefully the independent living section) at that age. I appreciate that harder to do though if you have family you wish to leave money to, as they are very expensive.

@Soontobe60 some of have not had any of the support you describe from our parents. Absolutely if the world you describe was your experience. It certainly was not mine. No support, no childcare, certainly no financial assistance-just a lot of criticism and judgement.

Walk in some of our shoes and you may not have the same view. I am pleased that you feel comfortable in helping your parents now. I have spent a lifetime helping mine whilst they judge me, criticise my home, my parenting whilst having a blast themselves. I urge us all to be careful. We have not all had a rose tinted life with these people.

I am 59 soon and after DH spent 2 weeks at his Mothers house a couple of years ago and got stressed out at the amount of clutter she had he changed tack radically regarding possessions. He very much likes hanging on to stuff.

You would never have come in to our house and think how cluttered but the attic, sheds and huge storage area were stuffed to the rafters and we did have too much stuff in our bedroom. So we have got rid of a lot of stuff. Think 5 boxes of bits of wire in his DIY storage area is now 1 box of wire, 5 drawers full of old electrical stuff like leads is now 1 drawer of leads. We got rid of lots of clothes to the charity shop. I had 4 shelves of sewing stuff, that was reduced to 1 shelf.

We are still slowly making our way through the loft. I chucked out 30 empty boxes for items we had bought over the years. Including a TV that had died a few years before. We just need to tackle our old work from University and our books. I have almost 1.5k Ladybird books I want to sell. Plus DH has stuff like an old French Monopoly set from the 1950’s that was his parents, that lays untouched. We have given everything else away or recycled where possible.

It’s our Swedish death clean well in advance, hopefully.

I work for a charity dealing with older people and I see this a lot. A lot. I have also had to clean up the mess after older relatives have refused to prepare for the inevitable. I'm afraid I find it terribly selfish. So many adult children are trying to run their own busy lives while being imposed upon by demanding, elderly parents who had every opportunity to prepare for this stage of their lives and decided not to.

I had to bully my own parents to downsize and move somewhere more suitable, after too long spent running around after them while trying to raise my own children, house and work, which involved driving 600km a week and dreading the phone ringing through fear of what I'd have to deal with this time. There were falls resulting in broken bones and a number of other accidents due to their house being completely unsuitable for them. Further down the line, they begrudingly admit that I was right and thank goodness I got them out of that house. I remember as a teenager seeing my mother get run ragged caring for a selfish elderly relative who refused to accept the reality of her own situation in favour of imposing upon my mother's kindness. She always swore she'd never do that to us but lo and behold...

My husband and I have no intention of doing the same to our own children and at 50 I have already made arrangements for old age.

I understand all the 'but they've lived there a long time and the house has memories' guff, and the whole desperate to be independent nonsense - nonsense because it so often comes at the expense of other people's independence who are forced to pick up the burden.

My attitude will definitely sound harsh to some, who seem to think there's some kind of virtue in exploiting other people's kindness to facilitate some sham of old age independence, but my work means I regularly see the toll it takes on the family and I do not like it one bit.

Obviously use a bit of tact when discussing it but do have the conversation.

@SharpLily, I agree with you actually.

I would also like to advise that the charity I work for runs a campaign called 'The Big Box'. It asks everyone to have a box of some kind where they keep originals or copies of all important documents and other information, such as contact details for family members and other important people such as lawyers, account numbers and providers of insurances, banks accounts, pensions and other financial information. Wills, final wishes, funeral arrangements, goodbye letters etc. Keys to storage facilities if necessary too.

Keep the box in a sensible, easily accessible place.

Our volunteers so often have to spend days and days going through dead people's belongings, chasing around looking for family to inform, trying to decipher finances, phoning banks, insurances, pension companies, plus clearing out houses and everything else involved in moving someone into residencial care or sorting out a death. All so, so much easier and quicker for everyone involved if the information were provided.

Well my parents weren't a burden on anyone. My mum got dementia in her 80s, my dad looked after her. When she died, he lived independently in their house. He got a stair lift put in when he was 89. He died 2 months ago aged 91 after three months in hospital. I took what I wanted from the house - my brother didn't want anything. He is executor and has got house cleaners in.

Not everyone has a terrible old age.

Everyone saying they have made preparations for their old age so that they are not a burden on their children - may I ask what these plans are please? I am just looking for inspiration, because I have no family myself, so need to prepare.