Should more people prepare for old age?

[Glasscabinet]

Bear with me on this one.

Off the back of two thoughts: PIL have received a sizeable inheritance and have asked us to have a think of what we’d like as they’d like to pay for something for us (car/something for our house/holiday). I won’t side this thread by they’ll be hidden strings involved so we’ve declined the offer three times.

But joking aside, what I’d really like them to spend the money on is planning for their old age. They’re both mid 70s, okayish health (FIL has had cancer twice in the last decade) but neither have had a particularly healthy lifestyle which is starting to show. Supposedly nobody in FIL’s side has reached 80; I doubt FIL will either. But they still manage two long haul holidays a year (for longer periods as they take them slower these days).

I can preempt that we’ll get the call within the next five years that FIL has died and MIL cannot cope alone in her four-bed-house. She hates her own company and relies on FIL for everything (no online shopping/cannot put fuel in the car/very much panics in any situation/problem…) The house has a downstairs toilet but no shower, not wheelchair friendly, huge garden and the area isn’t the safest- doubtful MIL would feel comfortable going to the shops in a scooter etc. The house is also four bedrooms of clutter.

Also reading another thread of when elderly family need to move it’s too late. Basically you’ve got to be pretty capable of doing a big move and life can change in an instant.

We’ve got a young family and I doubt it’s ’complete’. I feel almost obliged to spell it out to them that they can’t be relying on us as it’s just not feasible. MIL makes a lot of comments that we need to move closer as they want to help us with childcare. I feel myself biting my tongue that they need to sort out their arrangements first.

I don't think it has to be too extreme.

The 'big box' idea is great and it shouldn't be an extra vulnerability surely, these are things you have in the house anyway.

If you have anyone you trust in your life then POA (both of them) makes a huge difference; living on a bus route within walking distance of a shop makes a difference; trying to be somewhere that isn't too difficult to futureproof makes a difference (we don't currently have a downstairs bathroom but there is space for one).

That's about it really. And even those things are not entirely within your control (bus routes change, shops close unfortunately).

A big theme on the Elderly Parents board is parents who have made financial provision for the rainy day but won't spend it when the rainy day arrives. It is a major problem that the rainy day can last such a very long time these days, but spending the right money at the right time, if you have it, is crucial. Another big theme is elderly people who by all that can be discovered never spent a day caring for their own parents but are very quick to volunteer their own children as able to 'pop in' and help them 'manage' when we are talking daily specialist caring (incontinence, special diets, full administration of affairs etc). I will say that none of my numerous elderly relatives has asked for or expected this, which probably explains why I have not gone completely grey yet.

Oh - the best thing my mum did, apart from organising POA for finances and simplifying her affairs, was to tell me what she considered an acceptable quality of life. I know for sure what the limits are for her, and now that she can't make any of her own decisions, I can advocate for her.

Yes, that's what gets me. The illusion that they don't need help while making it as difficult as possible for the poor relative who's actually doing all the work.

Having seen this in action I'm already starting to declutter and plan to downsize and I'm in my early 60s. I don't understand why the generations above me are so obsessed with clinging onto their excessively large and unsuitable houses.

Well next time she says about moving closer for child care - say well even if we were to move closer, we don’t know where you’re going to downsize to yet so couldn’t mive, as we can’t move twice.

sow the seed that you’re not moving until they downsize, not that you’re going to move

but let them be the reason you’re inactive

We built an extra bedroom for £75k. This was just a bit more than the costs of moving.

Stamp duty (we are in Scotland) plus things like carpets, curtains, blinds, fresh paint all £££££

My mum is mid 70's and has a personal trainer once a week. She figured it was better value than waiting for a fall or weakness and having to get a carer in.

@raininsummer stamp duty is most of it, plus renting about 3 skips... but i think moving itself "only" cost me £35k. Since then we have spent a fortune on the house but that's not compulsory I guess.

I am finding this thread very interesting. I have had to clear a relatives house at much expense. I complained on here and very much got jumped on. I called it quite selfish to hoard and got two footed stomped on - ‘Well you didn’t HAVE to clear the house’ ‘Nobody made you’ ‘Hoarding ISNT selfish, how dare you’

Having done it once, I am dreading MILs house. It’s awful. She’s refusing to downsize and she spends her days buying more things. She should move to a much smaller more accessible house.
She presents it as ‘you will have all this money’ when I go. I/We don’t need the cash, it will be nice but we have no interest in being carers just to get some house money following 12 months of clearing the place. Absolutely not.

Marvellous. I assume you won't be putting upon your dc so that they can also 'carry on living ' when you are older.

My eminently sensible Grandmother moved into a bungalow when Granddad's mobility started to be impacted, had a fully accessible downstairs wet room installed and made all doorways wide enough for a wheelchair ahead of his needing one.

She got the carers in place, and fought for all the support he needed when he was diagnosed with Parkinsons. She still now looks back and says that she kept him at home too long because she couldn't face the fact that things were coming to the end.

Its not just about the practical arrangements, its a type of living grief for the things you can't do any more, and the hope that you can keep muddling through to hold on just a little bit longer. I'm not surprised, when faced with that, some people bury their heads in the sand and try to pretend its not happening.

We are in sw London so property is expensive and we would be looking at a property around £750k and the stamp duty on that would be £27.5k. Estate agent fees on selling the current house (3 bedroom semi) £12k. So I'm at £40k already. Then removals and solicitors brings it up to £50k. So £15k for fixing things, new carpets, curtains etc on top is really not allowing for much new decor and seems reasonable.

My sons are very supportive of me, I also do a lot of childcare for them, so don't feel guilty if I need a hand in the garden, for example. We are a close family, we all help each other. I do aqua yoga and aqua fit, have a wide circle of friends and plenty of hobbies.
I am doing what I can to stay fit and well, and am definitely not going to start preparing for death - it will come soon enough.
My sons know where the important papers are. I live in a 3 bedroom semi, on a bus route to the local town, get my food delivered etc.
This is my life, and I am going to live it as long as possible.

The thing is, how soon do you start preparing for old age / death?

My DPs are 95 and 89. It is only in the last 15 months they have needed any serious level of support. If they had downsized say 15 years ago then Dad would probably have lost his workshop that he still uses daily, and they would have been trapped in Covid instead of having their lovely garden.

The house will be a bit of a nightmare to clear eventually, but we will just have to get house clearance people in I guess. They are war generation so don't throw things out in case they are needed.

My late DF’s house clearance which cost £12k was because he was moving into care. He paid for it. I was POA but kept the cost away from him. He would have complained and asked whether myself and the wider family could make a few trips to the tip.

I already had done this (10 trips) and it didn’t make a dent. Think of those hoarders programmes where you cannot get through the front door with basement and loft stuffed full. Carpets needed to be removed as tbh they were really just a few threads!

A lot of old people just have NO idea.

The problem, as we have experienced, is that frailty can arrive swiftly. It's good to be prepared and ready for it.

MIL lives in a three bed house with no downstairs WC and a bus ride from the shops. DH has visited monthly, now every three weeks, since FIL died more than 15 years ago. (We are 240 miles away). DH has paid for a carer to call every day since Covid (MIL would not accept this was necessary if the state didn't think she needed it for free so that's what she's been told). SIL arranges the weekly shopping delivery from South Africa and has done for a few years.

In the last year MIL has become frail. She no longer goes out or potters in the garden. It's an uphill battle to get her to accept a cleaner or gardener. I'm not persuaded she'd cope with operating a stair lift, new appliances have to mirror old ones because of the buttons and that's less an age thing than a spatial awareness/practical thing. She would not cope with the upheaval of builders in to install a downstairs bathroom, notwithstanding the fact the house is the house that time forgot barely having been decorated since 1960!

DH is not a hoarder but he struggles to part with things having over the last 10 years cleared out half of the wall of books in his old bedroom - he gets waylaid by an interesting chapter.

I am dreading her passing because the house clearance will be an absolute nightmare and DH will take some managing. The SILs are abroad.

My mother is not dissimilar to MIL albeit less frail but there is not the same hesitation to accept help because mother has always had a cleaner, and has grasped more modernnthings more readily (phone, i-pad) and is naturally more sociable. They were both born in 1936. Mother also has a downstairs bathroom and bedroom which is a great help and the house is well kept and up to date and nothing has been kept for the sake of keeping it. Also, I will be able to be ruthless about what goes on a skip. Paradoxically mother has some nice pieces whilst MIL who can part with nothing has nothing worth keeping.

My nightmare is step, younger than mother, outliving her and me being exoected to fulfil a duty of care for someone I have no affinity with or affection for. It's something to be faced if it comes. However, he's the one with high blood pressure, arthritis, an autoimmune disease, pre diabetes, etc. Although if anything happens to him, mother will not fare well.

DH and I are organised. Wills up to date, all essential paperwork neatly filed in a filing cabinet, funeral arrangements decided.l DH has papers and too many books. For as long as DH is alive we shall stay where we are - we can afford to. If anything were to happen to DH I'd have no hesitation about downsizing and would move back to SW London, zone 2, near the best teaching hospitals, shops and galleries, etc. I have thought about it.

DH and I are almost 65 (me), 64 him. I am semi retiring in the autumn and DH has prepares himself for a sabbatical at least if necessary.

We are on our own as the SILs live abroad and I am an only child. Our DS is relocating to SA in the autumn and I suspect DD and BF will relocate to Europe in the fullness of time.

My apologies. I hadn't intended that to be so long and thank you if anyone got to the end.

Having executed three Wills, been Attorney for Aunt, and currently Attorney for remaining parent, everyone should plan, even if they don't think they have any assets. You should also be as fit and healthy as possible. Regarding housing, either plan to downsize or ensure you can afford the upkeep and adaptations. Sort out your funeral too, especially the actual service.

My experience with assorted family members is that getting old is much easier if you are fit and have sufficient funds, preferably both.

I meet so many older people who are astonished at the idea that anything could go wrong for them. It's what happens to other people only, apparently!

No matter how healthily you live, how many aquagym classes etc., it is a fact that falls happen more easily and regularly after a certain age, and the consequences are invariably more serious. It doesn't mean you're frail and decrepit - a fall I had in my early thirties that made me only too aware of how just a fraction of a second's inattention can change your life just like that. The amount of older people who laugh when you suggest that living in a house full of stairs could be a problem in time is unbelievable. If your house is suitable and you are prepared to install a stairlift, great, but it's not always an option and it doesn't necessarily solve every problem.

One of my current clients has spent her life as a hiker and hill climber. She had a successfull career and has travelled the world. Six months ago she slipped on a wet floor and fell. It didn't seem anything dramatic at the time but the result is she has two fractures in her spine and it turns out they won't heal because she has osteoporosis. That damage had been done over decades and had been silently worsening with no symptoms. She felt fit and healthy and saw no reason to make any preparations for 'old age'. The previous week she'd just returned from visiting her daughter in Thailand where she scuba dived, walked miles and was generally super active. Within that one day when she fell she can now no longer manage stairs in her home or driving her car. She has put on a huge amount of weight in a short time due to reduced activity (and depression, to be honest) and has to wear an uncomfortable brace and needs a walker to get around. She's now forced to move in a hurry to somewhere more suitable and it's soooo much harder to do.

So many older people live in a location that means they have to drive. There is nothing within walking distance. Within a year cataracts, macular degeneration etc. can make that dangerous or near impossible, but they refuse to accept it could happen to them.

I just don't understand how people can't see it. I understand they don't want to accept it but is a bit of basic common sense so hard to come by?

I think it's in part something a previous poster touched upon and hopefully is quite specific to the current older generation. Their own parents often didn't live long enough to need the sort of prep and planning we're talking about, plus they did have simpler live with less 'stuff'. People of my parents' age (70-80s) may be the first for whom this has become a major issue. My mother certainly doesn't see any comparison to her own mother and I remember my grandmother being an 'old lady' type by 70 and died at 77. My mother at almost 80 has dementia but has always looked 20 years younger than her own mother did at the same age. She doesn't have the short, white hair, the stooped posture, the swollen ankles and the old lady housecoat that aged my grandmother, so she just can't see the comparison.

I don't care how hard it is to come to accept your own frailties and changing situation, it is also your responsibility and I believe my own generation, who've been in the position of having to deal with this in their own parents, are far more mentally and practially prepared for what may come - even just going by the posts on this thread.

I'm sorry, I know I have a number of long posts on this thread but it's what I spend so much of my time dealing with and I feel very strongly about it!

A previous poster asked what you can do to prepare and in our case, apart from sorting out wills, paperwork etc. (I have a 'house file' containing all important info. I did this anyway after Hurricane Katrina on the basis that it's useful in any kind of emergency too and I keep it updated regularly), our house has been (and still is) a big reform project as part of which we have added a small apartment at the side of it on the ground floor, suitable for 'elderly' living. Currently it's where we've put my parents but the truth is their time is limited and it won't be occupied for long. Walking into town will probably become too far to be practical at a certain point but we have a mobility scooter for my father (he won't use it) and are quite happy to always have one of those for when needed. Everything is wheelchair accessible. Even though we've made sure ground floor accommodation is available, we also built the staircase to be able to accept a stairlift.

If you have unlimited funds and can easily pay for house renovations and permament care including carers, cleaners, gardeners etc. then good for you, you probably don't need any of this but the fact is that isn't most of us. You can have a good old age but it doesn't generally happen by accident, it takes some work and planning. In our case we're doing this not just for our own comfort but to avoid putting too much work upon our children.

The planning I do for my old age is cycling and weight at the gym, should really add in yoga for hip health and flexibility.

I have a house which is uncluttered but still has plenty of "stuff" but to e its useful

I not living life for someone else though, and don't expect anyone to live their life curtailed through my health or frailty. I would rather pay for help

@SharpLily

I just don't understand how people can't see it. I understand they don't want to accept it but is a bit of basic common sense so hard to come by?

I agree and can't understand it either. People seem to think they're infallible and it won't happen to them. But by the time they realise things need changing (whether due to dementia or mobility etc) it's too late and they end up trapped. Everyone seems to think they'll "know when the time comes" to downsize or move or get in carers etc but the reality is that for most, the time comes and passes without them realising.

We're only 60 and still working, but we're actively preparing for downsizing, moving to more suitable long term housing (one floor, bus routes, local amenities etc), organising paperwork, consolidating pensions and investments, selling loads of old "stuff" on Ebay that we're realistic enough to know we'll never use again and simply don't need. I've also got a business, so that's something else I'm slowing winding down and getting organised so that it's not a burden to our son and won't leave clients in the lurch if I suddenly die or can't work. Wills and POAs all in place.

All just common sense really. Both sets of parents were nightmares whilst they were alive and needing more and more care, living in unsuitable homes, and when they died, leaving two houses full of decades of clutter that had to be sorted through to find scraps of paper all over the place to piece together their finances - both sets seemed happy enough to destroy recent bank statements etc that were useful but kept those decades old that were useless!

DH and I were talking about this yesterday, as part of a discussion about someone we know who has had a serious stroke in the 80's, and will never go home again. I would not want to continue in a care home - DH believes that I would have no choice. How do you enforce that choice, whether for yourself or someone you love?

Enforce you can't. But there are sometimes options. You need to be more specific. What is it about being in a home that makes it a no for you? The lack of control, the inability to set your own schedule? Tbh the reasons for being in a home will reduce your choices anyway. If you're at home chairbound in nappies with 2 carers 4 times a day and not able to move between visits, is that still better than having at least some access to 24 hour care in a home so that you can be moved around more and not be sitting in your own shit for so long? What is the alternative? What is the impact on others?

The big thing I should have accepted was to let my mum die at home and not to have called the ambulance. But that would have taken more courage than I had. She was getting up, falling, peeing herself, falling again. In the end I did call them. Ever since we have advocated for no treatment, no antibiotics. Every time we think the decision is made, it slips back in. It's a constant battle.

Totally agree with you BlueLegume

Yes. The ‘cross that bridge’ mentality of PIL led ultimately to their downfall, a low point being BIL and SIL hauling a soiled FIL out the bath.
Things only improved when he died and MIL went into care but the following six months of four of us clearing out and skipping sixty years of crap has left a very bad taste.

@SharpLily Nailing it with the question on common sense.

DHs elderly aunt, no kids, we are her only relatives geographically close.

Spent her last lump of savings relocating to a bigger rural 4 bed house. No bus service. House has not gone up in enough value to downsize to something smaller and better located with all of the costs involved.

Great views though. No neighbours, just like she likes it.

Nearest big hospital 2+ hours in the car. She can’t get a dentist locally either.

I got a call to say her surgery was over and I could come and collect her now. I had no idea she had even gone. She had driven to the train station and got the train to the hospital 🫣
She was flabbergasted they would just send her home after the operation. She thought she would be in for at least a few days until her sight was back. She’s deaf as a post and likes to hear her version of events.

I was in the middle of a shift and couldn’t just leave as I also had my kids to worry about and wouldn’t be home in time . DH was at the other end of the country.

We haven’t really spoken the same since they had to get emergency transport home for her and she didn’t like it 😂

No way am I caring for someone by force.

I’m 60. I don’t feel old. No way am I planning for my death or old age. I think you are being unreasonable.