Should more people prepare for old age?

[Glasscabinet]

Bear with me on this one.

Off the back of two thoughts: PIL have received a sizeable inheritance and have asked us to have a think of what we’d like as they’d like to pay for something for us (car/something for our house/holiday). I won’t side this thread by they’ll be hidden strings involved so we’ve declined the offer three times.

But joking aside, what I’d really like them to spend the money on is planning for their old age. They’re both mid 70s, okayish health (FIL has had cancer twice in the last decade) but neither have had a particularly healthy lifestyle which is starting to show. Supposedly nobody in FIL’s side has reached 80; I doubt FIL will either. But they still manage two long haul holidays a year (for longer periods as they take them slower these days).

I can preempt that we’ll get the call within the next five years that FIL has died and MIL cannot cope alone in her four-bed-house. She hates her own company and relies on FIL for everything (no online shopping/cannot put fuel in the car/very much panics in any situation/problem…) The house has a downstairs toilet but no shower, not wheelchair friendly, huge garden and the area isn’t the safest- doubtful MIL would feel comfortable going to the shops in a scooter etc. The house is also four bedrooms of clutter.

Also reading another thread of when elderly family need to move it’s too late. Basically you’ve got to be pretty capable of doing a big move and life can change in an instant.

We’ve got a young family and I doubt it’s ’complete’. I feel almost obliged to spell it out to them that they can’t be relying on us as it’s just not feasible. MIL makes a lot of comments that we need to move closer as they want to help us with childcare. I feel myself biting my tongue that they need to sort out their arrangements first.

This subject is clearly an emotive one. Can I gently steer it back a little? We are not suggesting everyone moves to a bungalow or gives up a garden. We are suggesting that it is worth ‘considering’ doing things like decluttering and maybe looking at future proofing existing accommodation so when a crisis hits the immediate response does not need to be a care home or nursing home simply because ’home’ is not suitable.

In all honesty saying ‘don’t put me in a home’ is a meaningless statement unless you can back it up with what you do want - quite often support from busy middle aged adult children often juggling jobs and grandchildren of their own.

I said it earlier on a post - if you do nothing else just do the declutter. As for the advice given by the green goddess about stairs - really? We moved to a flat several years ago and there are stairs. Too many excuses and not enough consideration that there is a responsibility to not expect too much from adult children who are not responsible for the happiness of their parents in the same way no one is responsible for other people’s happiness.

The research showing it's better to keep going with stairs shows a definite benefit at 65 but post 80 not so much.

Tbh I'd like to see it made illegal to build a block of flats without a lift... though no doubt that would have unintended consequences as well. My mum and I looked at multiple flats she might have considered but a second floor walk up at 81 and a dodgy hip...? I couldn't in all conscience support her with that. I'm not sure she would have moved to any of them in the end.

Again though I agree with @BlueLegume. I don't think people should have to leave their garden at 70. I've now seen many elderly people go through their final years and die with truly admirable plans in place, and 90% of the stress is not doing the absolute basics like a will, PoA, accepting that paid-for care is a good idea in some form. A lot of the rest is tbh services for older people being a bit more realistic about what 'capacity' to decide to go home actually looks like and who us going to be facilitating that. As I work with older people I do a lot of battle axe stuff in meetings 'yes she has two daughters but they work full time. What else is there?' I'm no genius at my job but that I can do.

DH and I are in 70s, both luckily fit and well and active and hope to stay like that. Our son died 18 years ago so there will be no one to "clear up"after we're both gone. I had to do this for both my mum and dad and it's heartbreaking and frankly a chore. There's nothing in our loft, we live in a bungalow with walk in shower and we've made the garden as low maintenance as possible.

I realise you can't foresee all eventualities, but there no way I would want my niece clearing up after me, my possessions are minimal. We do have a beloved old dog, but she's 14 and suspect will go before me! We'll then look at having an older dog after some nice holidays, which we haven't had for a couple of years because of dog.

I'm also arranging a direct funeral for myself and if DH goes first that's what he'll have. This all may sound soulless but I'm a planner, as much as you can be at my age.

@Freysimo firstly, so sorry to hear about your son. You sound like you have done really what many of us are suggesting - simplify life.

Sadly there are far too many of us with stubborn/difficult elderly parents who refuse to even meet us part of the way to make things less difficult. As you say you cannot foresee all eventualities however decluttering and making things easier to manage such as the garden and a walk in shower simply make sense.

A lot of this will come back to bite people of my age - early 60s. My mother has so much stuff I get anxious about the huge task ahead-she is mid 80s but no sign of illness so possibly another 10 plus years. I can see myself mid 70s having to deal with her house - fills me with dread. The annoying bit being I have done the big decluttering stage of life and live in a very lovely space - stairs - so the green goddess need not worry - but also a lift.

The beauty of a decluttering experience in your 50s is you have accumulated a lot of stuff but you get the joy of only keeping things you need and love. Do it for those you will leave behind.

Why should older people give up their home and lifestyle because at some point they may not be able to cope? They may just die suddenly at a comparatively young age, both of my parents did. Or they may remain fit and healthy into extreme old age, I've seen farmers at 90 odd still driving tractors. Do you want people to just give up on life when they hit 70 or some other random figure?

No one is suggesting they "give up their home and lifestyle"! No one is suggesting they trot off to book themselves in an OAP home at 60!

Moving to a smaller home with downstairs bathroom, moving to a different location with better access for public transport and facilities, decluttering some possessions/paperwork not been looked at for decades, is ALL common sense, not "giving up".

None of that stops you having a nice home and lifestyle!

But it puts you in a better position to cope with what life throws at you in years to come!

Just because one person aged 90 can drive a tractor doesn't mean everyone can. It's a stupid argument, just like all those who justify smoking because they had a Great Aunt Edna who smoked every day and lived to 120! Of course, some people will continue to live a happy, active life until they drop dead and never need a stairlift, downstairs loo or need professional care - but that's really not the case for huge numbers of people who languish for years rattling around an unsuitable home or living in places without easy access to amenities etc meaning they have a sub-optimum existence.

I don't think that is what people are saying at all. If driving tractors at 90 is sustainable, not likely to cause anyone any harm, then great. But for every 90 year old tractor driver I know, I can tell you about the examples of farmer's I know who didn't sort out their finances or Will and the family farm ended up being sold as the kids couldn't work out how to split it fairly. Or where one daughter inherited everything and her siblings nothing, in order to keep the farm together, causing huge rifts.

@taxguru well said. @dogcatkitten no one suggested everyone’ has to move etc it is more about ‘thinking’ who will be around to pick up the pieces if/when things change.

I spent/lost/wasted most of my 50s because my parents became less able to manage their home,garden etc and refused to accept any help other than from us - well largely my sister and I. It is unfair to decide you want to live a certain way when you then expect your adult children to carry the load. It is just not acceptable.

So sorry to hear about your lovely mum. Very hard for her and you. Regarding the issue of living in a house with stairs or moving to a bungalow, I agree with the Green Goddess that actually climbing stairs can keep you fitter and help with balance.

People make their own decisions which then quickly culminate into what quality of life they have when they're elderly. We've got friends who have 'la la la'd' into old age and now are in serious difficulties - our grandson has a saying when he doesn't want to do something of 'not today' and this sums up their attitudes.

When we moved in our late sixties we balanced our needs now with our future needs, not easy! So we no longer have a period house with a large garden and orchard but we still have a modern four bed house (with stairs) but scope for a downstairs bedroom and bathroom. I no longer have a greenhouse, but two cold frames so I can still indulge my growing habits. Our smaller, walled garden gives me great joy. Now we have public transport from just outside our house and doctors, dentists,community hospital library, shops are all easily accessible. Most importantly our only child and her family are now within easy travelling distance. She asked us to move nearer her, so this also partly prompted our move. We feel we achieved everything we set out to do. If needs be we'll get a cleaner, gardener and there are local care company services readily accessible.

It's demanding and stressful moving, and I wouldn't have wanted to leave it any longer. But you still want to enjoy a decent quality of life. So our grandchildren have a bedroom here and we help with childcare a lot. For example we had one grandchild on Saturday and the other one yesterday - it gives us great joy to do so.

Sure, you want to live for today, but definitely think about tomorrow and minimise the stress on your adult children. I cared for my 90 year old father and it wasn't easy - even though I employed a housekeeper for him and had carers too, the emotional load was all mine, which with a new husband, career and young child balancing all that was hard. I hope our daughter will have an easier time but no-one can plan for and ameliorate every situation unfortunately, you can only do your best. Sorry for the essay!

Yes!

My mum was brilliant and it made the last decade of her life much easier all round.

It’s good for your dh to take the lead, asking what PiL will do when the garden is too much for them etc.

Whilst it’s “easy” to get a downstairs shower installed or a lift /a handrail on the stairs, or a nicely designed slope created to get up the doorstep, from experience you do NOT want to be doing this when an old person has already had an injury. Because then you’ll be dashing around trying to do the hospital trips, the physio appointments, the trips to pick up prescriptions, the grocery shop, arranging a cleaner to help with the bed changes or even a carer to help with getting up and dressed each morning.

If your PiL are far away you have limited choices: travel and help, or leave them to flounder.

My aging PiL have a huge bungalow with aa gorgeous garden. The live in a town and they are tech savvy so they can shop online. They They have savings and they have decluttered. They are pretty fab. But I still worry - how will they manage when they are in their 80s?

Exactly. MIL walked a mile and a half into town one morning. She went to the bank, did some shopping and met friends for coffee the got the bus home. In the afternoon she had a stroke and never walked or talked again.

@countrygirl99 @chipsticksmammy absolutely agree that these scenarios do happen. However there are some older people who KNOW they are not in suitable home/location who point blank refuse to accept they need adjustments making. Having experienced my own parents who have spent decades mocking their peers for ‘moving to a poky bungalow’ etc I am envious of the adult children of said peers who are not dealing with a dying father in a home, an irrational mother who wants everything her way and managing my own family. All because of poor choices.

I have stepped back from my mother and am focused of my father. She has spent a lifetime getting her own way and has zero coping skills to accept her life choices are why her life is now miserable.

When she dies I will employ a house clearance company. I am not prepared to deal with her hoarding - it is not TV show level but it is utterly ridiculous. Why should I have to clear her mess up?

My Aunt is 91. She had lived in her three bed semi for over 50 years, with no downstairs loo. Almost on a whim she decided three years ago to move to somewhere more suitable.

I looked at three properties for her, and then took her to see the two that would be suitable. The one she felt most 'at home' in was a McCarthy & Stone one bed flat, literally next door to a small supermarket in a lovely little village. Her house sold quickly (very popular area for schools) and she moved within three months of making her decision.

There have been some downsides. We couldn't get rid of her furniture so most of it was skipped - some beautiful pieces, but too big for modern houses. Cupboards full of unused gifts (mainly from us!!), 50 years worth of paperwork - moving her was a bit of a nightmare.

She is now living in a small complex with around 25 other people, has made more friends than she's ever had in her life. Loo on the ground floor, which has been so important as her health has deteriorated, and she has a french door leading onto her patio.

She has her health issues - currently DH is taking her to a dressings clinic twice weekly for leg ulcers, and there are various other issue, but thank God she had the foresight and guts to make the move when she did. It's made her life so much better - and ultimately so much easier for us too.

Unlike our friends who insisted that they stayed in their bungalow which is a mile from the bus stop (so taxis everywhere) and a couple of miles to the nearest shop. Nightmare!

It doesn’t have to mean moving to a bungalow or into a CH and giving up your lifestyle. Bungalows can be inconvenient - often on the edge of towns/cities and with larger gardens. But a house or flat where it’s possible to have a bedroom and bathroom available without having to climb stairs is really useful.

It’s the sort of idiotic move where someone in their late 60s/early 70s decides to buy a four bed detached with large gardens in the middle of nowhere because “they’ve always fancied country life” and they’ve got room for all the family to stay. We went for one Christmas and it was miserable being stuck with small children in the middle of nowhere, so the whole family never stayed again. Then the person needs surgery and can’t drive for six weeks but there is no public transport or local shop…

A big garden isn’t a problem if the person has a plan for what to do when they start to struggle to maintain it. If it’s somewhere with a local gardener available and the money (and willingness!) to pay them, then I’ve seen this work successfully where the gardener takes over hedge cutting and lawn maintenance, but the elderly person can still enjoy propagating seeds and pruning. It’s about attitude and ability/willingness to pay for help.

I've a friend who decided to drop out of the rat race and works as a self employed gardener. She doesn't do big stuff and probably charges less than she could. Most of her customers are elderly and just need someone to keep the garden ticking over. I wish I could get my mum to accept someone like that. Her smallish garden currently looks like a re-wilding project and I'm refusing to touch it because she could get someone in.

I agree with those saying a lot of the preparation is attitudinal, so when it’s gently suggested that you could do with a cleaner or gardener and you can easily afford it, you don’t just brush off the suggestion as some sort of personal slight.

I finally managed to get DPs to accept a cleaner because DM is bed bound, but only one visit for 2 hrs despite the cleaner saying she could do a lot more in two visits. Even then DM is claiming the cleaner is doing the floor twice because there isn’t much to do , probably more because of the crumbs that DF scatters at every meal. I don’t understand how or why she is so delusional about the matter. I believe subconsciously she is ashamed and frightened that she is unable to do these chores anymore and - even more subconsciously- despite us having the conversation about me living an hour away and working full time, she thinks I should be doing it as the dutiful adult DD and only DC.

I am happy to organise support, but I hate all this masquerading and tiptoeing that has to be done. In my mind DPs need more care to stay in their own home, so they should get additional support. Thank god we are in Scotland so DM gets the free carers 4 x per day, otherwise they would never pay for it, despite being absolutely bloody loaded. And yes the thought of some inheritance in the future is nice, but I would so much rather they spent it on their needs now, rather than dancing around it and pretending DF isn’t losing his memory etc. so I or DH have to go up more frequently than we would ideally.

I find this mentality so bizarre. It's obvious that we all have seasons in our life and once you hit 70 then you are reaching the winter of your life and nobody is truly spared from the impact of old age. Those who truly believe that they will be the exception and be the spritely 90 year old living in a large detached house with a huge garden truly independently with all their faculties are taking a huge gamble. The chances are that this won't be you and you will be much happier and more independent if you make adjustments whilst you're young enough to cope with them. The amount of people that bury their heads in the sand and think it won't happen to them is crazy and I can only assume that it's all wrapped up with an inability for people in general to accept their decline and ultimately their mortality.

To a certain extent, I wouldn't really care if people's decisions only impacted them. If you want to rattle around in a completely inappropriate property in your 70s then fine, but all too often when it all goes wrong and it becomes unmanageable or you die then you create a massive burden for your children to sort out. This is fundamentally unfair and something we should all seek to avoid. As individuals in a society we should seek to manage our lives in a way that doesn't place an unnecessary burden on others.

@Bumpitybumper what an excellent post.

@countrygirl99 good for you re the garden. Stick to your guns.

Actually I think we're saying the opposite of give up!

Moving to more suitable accommodation and making lifestyle adjustments would allow many older people to carry on participating in and enjoying life. As opposed to the likes of my father who had resigned himself to living in one chair because he couldn't get out of the house, and even if he did, he couldn't get anywhere because there was nowhere to go without driving - which he could no longer do! Quite literally he stayed in his house for months, being lifted out occasionally by my husband for doctor appointments. After I forced my parents out of that house he can now get around both inside and out, can go into town on his mobility scooter if he wishes (he usually doesn't) or use it to walk our dogs with my children (he does regularly). He can access the garden and as he's right there he can come out with family regularly. Which sounds like a better old age to you?

Being stuck in an unsuitable home without basic comforts or decent access to amenities, healthcare, a social life etc. because you refuse to accept that life changes is giving up. Making sure you can continue a full life even if your body or mind are starting to let you down is surely a better way to go?

I can only assume the people who refuse to plan for their old age also refuse to buy any kind of insurance too... If you think home insurance/life insurance/car insurance etc. makes sense because shit happens, why would you think this is any different?

Unless you have some kind of crystall ball that assures you that you will never, ever suffer any kind of infirmity of the kind the majority of older people do, and will be able to live a full life completely independently up until the day you die, can you not see how making adjustments is just common sense?

There's a story illustrating all of this right now on Emmerdale, with the uber-stubborn Eric Pollard. The actor is playing it well, showing the struggle between pride or desire to be independent and a failing body. I know we're meant to feel sorry for him but I can't, I'm just so pissed off with how stupid he's being!

@SharpLily another excellent post. There seems to be an assumption from some posters that when we suggest our elderly make changes we are somehow wanting their lives to be ‘less’. We are not. For many of us we have watched a steady decline over many years and eventually offer potential ’solutions’ to said elderly - often having had listened to them bemoaning everything that is wrong. We are trying to help them and in turn help us.

This brigade of ‘I don’t wanters’ end up putting huge pressure on the family. Even if it just ensuring that at a point in life - mid 50-60 as a ballpark figure - you ensure where you live has been maintained enough to a good level. Our parents did not do this but have spent the past 25 years plus doing no maintenance to their home, accumulating most of the middle aisle from Aldi/Lidl but failing to see the fact their home has not been fit for purpose for years.

We want the elderly to have a good old age but in order to do this sometimes compromises need to be made.

My parents refused any cleaners, gardeners, didn’t mind us doing it though and somehow thought we wanted to. Didn’t downsize their car due to snobbery - it ended up being scrapped as 10 years ago we suggested getting a smaller about town car - newish - they could afford to but instead kept a massive car and just kept chucking money at it even when the garage said it wasn’t worth the spend. When it all fell apart it was left to us, well me to sort it all out. Again.

I absolutely agree.

DF still doesn't have a will or funeral plan sorted. I've asked him so many times.

Thankfully he did agree to move - he is two minutes drive from us in a lovely 1 bed bungalow. Much smaller garden but still plenty to do. He is alway out gardening now where as he old one was becoming neglected.

The old house had very steep stairs and no downstairs loo and when my mum died/was ill it was difficult.

He's in his mid 70s. I might drop some leaflets in his letter box for some hints 😂

Yes to all of this !

I know my DPs want to stay in their own home for as long as possible, so why not make the adaptations and get the extra support incrementally as needs increase to allow them to do that. Rather than every little damn thing be rejected and mulled over and considered and only adopted when the situation is beyond urgent , whilst they live in poor conditions, struggling to do tasks - or getting me to do them - that could easily be outsourced with some money which they have in spades.
I don’t mind supporting for the stuff that is really necessary and I want to visit to provide what emotional support I can, but honestly it really pisses me off when I am doing stuff that could be paid for. And this is us pretty much at the start of this journey, my well of sympathy has reduced to a puddle already as I have POA and can see how much is in their accounts.