DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

This is the best answer OP.

The carer shouldn't be able to access your mums card, and nor should she be nagging g you to buy things beyond what your Mim actually needs. I wood contact the agency regarding this-it's not right at all.

Has your mum been assessed has having capacity? Have you got LPA for her?

Live in care is usually between 900 and 1500 a week-2000 seems very steep.
Try caresourcer or Karehero for comparisons and advice.
If your mum has capacity still it's her money and she can spend it how she likes, whether unwisely or not. Once she gets down to 23,250 liquid assert however the LA start to fund-but try to warn her-they won't find what she has now!

Def get an OT in. You can pay for that and get a proper report. It will cost less than the chair.
With regards to the carer, can you look at hiring someone privately. I had to do this when organising a carer long term for a family member. It saves a fortune, even if you pay the carer more, and including insurance and super. Hiring 2 or even 3 people to alternate is the easiest. It will still cost less than agency fees IME.
Get a book where all expenses need to be written down, is a quick way to find out where the money is going ( receipts in an envelope in the back).
Good luck.

I also wonder if the carer is ordering so much stuff she's managing to siphon off bits for herself?

Is your mum using the stuff or just enjoying it arriving & opening it?

I mean if that's the case it can surely just be returned after it's been seen?

Either way I think that you need much more control!

OP, I do hope you see this. Just to answer the chair question so you can make a confident decision, yes, it’s a ridiculous price. I have one of these chairs. Here’s the proof. You can get “made to measure” ones for not even half of 4.5K, made in the UK, and I believe you choose the fabric from what it says are “hundreds of different fabrics”, since that seems to be so important to your mother (I took what they had because they gave me a discount, ha BUT I do understand dementia is a different beast). https://www.wheelfreedom.com/products?product_type=chair&chair_type=rise+and+recliner&made_to_measure=made+to+measure&locked_filters=product_type%7Cchair_type%7Cmade_to_measure&cat_id=22572018

And this is one of many, MANY, many options in the UK for rising power recliners that are under 4.5K.

I mean, I’m currently in Switzerland and they overcharge hugely for everything and I still got mine for just barely over 1200.

OP, my dad has mobility issues and he bought one of these secondhand for £600. It had been made to order for a lady who died about a year after it was purchased and they told us it cost £4000. It's got all sorts of bells and whistles he doesn't need (and would never use) including a massager, a USB point, a table with table light etc. it die have a heat pad and he loves that! I would imagine the deluxe version will have some of the similar bits.

The carer sounds helpful but also she clearly knows she's landed on her feet here. As she has a debit card she's allowed to use, does she have a budget or boundaries?

Could you set up notifications on the bank account so you know when something is spent? Perhaps you could share the account for food/delivery/supermarket shops and set it up so that you have to approve the basket before it's purchased?

The reality is, unless your mum has huge reserves and is able to spend like this, if she doesn't slow down she'll be looking at a future of state funded care and that isn't likely to include smoked salmon and a live in carer.

So to answer the question, I'm not surprised at the £4K cost of the chair. Sounds about right. But does sound like you need some firmer boundaries with the carer. She absolutely should not have the power to invite a salesperson round and get your mum signed up to an expensive purchase without your involvement.

Also OP, unless your mum has a very specific spinal co diction or disability, I don't think she will need to be measured for a chair. She just has to find it comfortable and useable.

My dad has Parkinson's and a severe pain condition and thankfully the family he bought it from were great and let him do two visits so he could wait in-between to see if the pain flared up. It didn't and after the second visit he bought it.

My dad got one free through a NHS scheme when going through cancer treatment as his OT assessed him as needing one. It's worth speaking to medical professionals involved with your mum or even GP first to see if she might be eligible for one in a similar scheme.

He gave his back now as thankfully recovered enough to no longer need help with getting in and out of achair.

I agree. I’m in London and that’s a still an awful lot.

OP needs to shop around and find a better deal. And a more responsible carer.

Def get an OT in. You can pay for that and get a proper report. It will cost less than the chair.
Noooo, get a referral to OT through Social Services. This is fairly easy and the process for adaptations and equipment is fairly quick once you're in the system. Speak to your local Carers group if you need to.
See what @Tumbleweed101 says above.

You are not safe guarding your mother's future by letting her spend at the whim of a carer without question.
Speak to whom ever is in charge of the carer's agency about your concerns that Mother is being easily swayed.
It is very unprofessional of the carer to take advantage of her.

Think about setting a limit to the amount the carer can spend per week and month and per transaction.
Your mother's affairs should be transparent.

Splurge on her yourselves, with cheaper, lovely things like a cup cake or flowers. She obviously loves being treated as special but four cashmere cardigans in one month is excessive.
They are also easily wrecked when washed incorrectly.

An Occupational Therpist could be consulted before buying a 4000 chair. If you are spending that much it shoud be warrented, helpful and robust.

Thank you thank you thank you to all - even critical responses. I'm very grateful and I'm giving myself a good talking to as we need to get a handle on things. I was so overwhelmed with my father's illness and death that DM situation escalated under the radar. Both parents deteriorated at the same time in different ways, but one had more obvious needs.

Special thanks to @noped for such a thoughtful and useful response. I wish you could come and sort this out and hold my hand. It's so hard to get this right when there's such a steep learning curve. In addition to everything else in my life (work, kids, husband etc).

And also @5YearsLeft for first-hand knowledge.

But really thanks to all. I'm going to hit the phone today to chase the OT referral (wish me luck) and if not, to organise a private one. Then get onto changing care agencies/employing direct. We've let a temporary situation drift into a permanent one.

Definitely get a private referral now.

DFIL has dementia and one of these chairs but he can’t work it. The chair belonged to DDIL’s granny, originally, but she died so it was passed on to him. He’s fine sitting in it, the OT came out and said it’s a good fit but not to use the riser bit as yet because he needs to keep using his muscles but he doesn’t have the capacity to recline himself. He would have 6 months ago.

I wouldn’t be sending £4.5k on a chair in this situation, @Valleyofthedollymix . I feel for you. It sounds like you’re torn between a rock and a hard place atm.

I'm an OT and riser recliner chairs are the bane of my life. So many people get them completely unnecessarily and they can quickly decondition people who become dependent on the riser mechanism. Losing the ability to engage their core muscles and making other transfers difficult.
Is she able to get up from the toilet or commode? Then she should be able to get up from her chair if it's high enough.
Your carer needs a good talking too.
Even in cases where someone needs a riser chair (some Parkinson's patients) I would never dream of recommending a particular company or (God forbid) inviting a salesperson round.

Just a thought about care homes, whether or not this ends up being a full-time option for the future. Are there any good ones near you who run things like coffee mornings, exercise classes or other regular events that members of the public can join in with?

This sort of thing could be a regular trip out with or without you or a carer, an activity that isn't costly, a way to make new friends, a way to become familiar with a place that might one day end up becoming 'home' and might give a carer if they go along some alternative company too, as well as something new to talk about when they return home.

I know that one of the care homes near my parents would invite visitors and their carers for special occasions, another would do 'day care' once a week which cost a lot but less than the amount you are paying daily. They included a pick up and drop off service. As a PoA, it's also a way to see how these sort of set ups work and be able to watch different homes in action, especially in terms of management before any bigger commitment is made.

If you haven't already done so, it might also be worth asking the GP to see if there is a centralised point of contact for accessing services in your mum's local NHS authority. Nobody told us but we found out by accident that our NHS had a group of area-wide specialist senior community 'health visitors' who knew their way around the whole of what was available in our area for older and/or more vulnerable people. They could access medical information and liaise with the GP and district nurses and were reassuring about whether a situation looked like it needed fast-tracking or not. They could also deal with the nursing side of things if necessary, eg weighing, giving jabs or doing urine tests in an emergency but this wasn't their main job which was to facilitate access to services including equipment assessment and loan. Once my parents were on their list, it was just one point of contact for all the services we needed and made things so very much easier.

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‘I think you need to tell the carers that her funds are running out and they need to not enable her spending frivolously.

It may or not be strictly true but it's silly buying lots of new clothes if the money is better spent elsewhere.’

Burning through £2+ a week funds will be depleting at quite a rate.
Good advice, maybe replace the unlimited card with a pre-loaded one if the spending is really wild.

In some ways a lack of interest in ‘things’ can make life easier. My Mum likes to visit poundland. Spending the odd fiver on things that are unlikely to be used vs her enjoyment is worth it. 7 rolls of clingfilm anyone?

‘My Mother with dementia never got the hang of using this type of chair. Would recline it but forget how to right it again and would - very unsafely - climb out.’

This is my Mum. She never uses the reclining functions now and rarely did when it was new a few years ago. However she does use the remote as a phone when the real phone rings.

Tbh there is a part of me that thinks if I had dementia I'd want to have fun spending my money before I declined. Dementia is vicious.
How about ring fencing enough for the basic care and fees?
I can't remember reading but make sure you have both POA in place - financial and health.

My mum got a bespoke one made for her and she hates it. She went to a shop and she tried a few that she loved and then they measured her for her own one. It broke down a couple of times too which she was unhappy with. She wants to get a new chair now that isn’t “bespoke”.

I don’t think the carer should have access to your mum’s bank account via a debit card or be using any card in your mum’s name. This is a breach of the Terms&Conditions. You probably need to inform the bank that your mum no longer has capacity, get the card cancelled and a new card and pin set up that you have control of.

you can find other ways to give the carer funds to spend on your mum’s needs. Eg A prepay card which you can top up as required. You can agree a fairly generous set amount with the carer to cover regular needs but then a discussion will need to take place about anything exceptional.

She's now so reliant and deskilled that she feels that one (carer) is not enough (she needs one for her nails!)

Round here a chiropodist will come to the house to cut nails for about £40, which would be a LOT cheaper

As for the chair, is it really made to measure, or is this one of those things where they push what seems the best one for her and chuck the word "bespoke" round a lot?

I get what you're saying about being seen to be the bad guy here, but if you want to protect her you may need to be exactly that

Haven't had the chance to read all posts, as I'm short on time, but wanted to hop on, to say that we got our Dad a riser recliner, when his legs were weak after a stint in hospital. He had some rehab at that time, and we were repeatedly told by many different professionals that they are the worst thing ever. Because the person no longer uses muscles to get themselves in and out of the chair, they rapidly decline. I even had one professional say to me "her heart sank when we said he had a riser recliner".

My Dad is now bed bound and can't walk at all, and this was a contributing factor apparently.

Why are you being so wet with the hired help. Tell her she is not to arrange ANYTHING without going through you and take that card off her. Can't believe you've given her this much power - what were you thinking??

Oh and the chair we got my Dad was about £500 from Argos. I bet the chair is way less than £4.5k and the carer is pocketing the difference. I'd look into care homes if I was you. This whole set up is crazy and you don't seem to have a handle on it.

I'm really shocked your Mum is paying over 100k a year for a carer. She could live in a very posh residential home with hairdressers and nail tech and social activities every day for less than that.