DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

DM has one. Bought after she'd been extremely poorly nearly a decade ago. Expensive outlay but on a cost-per-use basis, it's probably worked out at under £1 per day. Enormously helpful to her.

At that price, it will be customised to her size, etc.

If your DM can afford it, OP, why not let her spend her money on something that will be comfortable, will enable her to change her position throughout the day and will help her to more easily/safely get in and out of it than might be the case with a conventional armchair.

Err, your carer is most definitely dodgy!!
Carers are not in charge of ordering new TVs, cashmere jumpers and smoked salmon. She’s taking the piss big time.

1. Speak to her. Give her a budget for food for the two of them or better still order an online shop yourself on repeat.
2. Speak to the agency. This is unacceptable.

Dont know anything about chairs but I would ask for an OT assessment via your GP or SS. They were very quick visiting an elderly friend of mine and had all sorts of things installed within a fortnight.

My Nan had one of these at this cost. It was fab but she used it for 6 months (with a protective cover) and then went into hospital never to come out. The chair was sold on to a mobility centre. Worth looking at the second hand options.

Really sorry, being incredibly lazy and haven’t rtft, but if she is able to stand up from a chair, then she should avoid a rise and recline as long as possible, as it really is a case of use it or lose it. She will get increasingly weak muscles if she stops using them, and won’t be able to hoick herself off the bed/toilet in the future. She would be better paying for a few physio sessions to give her exercises to keep her muscles in good working order for as long as possible.

The carer should be working with your mother AND her support network, particularly where her condition will lead to inevitably falling under consideration of the mental capacity act.

Yes, chairs are beneficial. Out of control spending is not. Second hand chairs are out there and measurements on the leg length hip height will be needed, but of course whilst they are made for individuals there is only so much variation in the population!

Signed up just to reply to this.

Riser recliner chairs can vary in cost. You could be looking anywhere between £400 and £10k.
The one that your mother has chosen is bespoke and made for her size and comfort. This is not an unusual price for what she's purchasing.
Provided she has the ability to use the controls, this could massively improve her comfort and quality of life.

Respectfully, this is your mother's money. If she wishes to spend it, you can't stop her.
The care assistant won't benefit from your mother having an expensive chair. Shes not forcing her to make this purchase. A need has been identified and a solution found.

• I used to sell these chairs for a living.

And yes, all mobility and strength should be encouraged.

Do you have POA? I hope so! You need to invoke it, and let the carer have access to the money she needs to look after DM in comfort, but no more. Sounds like DM is no longer capable of running her own financial affairs and you need to take control.

I would also be concerned about this carer. This happened to an elderly man I knew - he had no close family and no POA, but mild forgetfulness rather than diagnosed dementia so there was no court order to invoke or anything and no one really in a position to raise the alarm. He started spending crazy money on himself, on friends and on the carer - gifts of hundreds of pounds cash here there and everywhere, a new car for the carer, buying expensive tech then giving it away a few days later, holidays and meals out at expensive London restaurants, really living the highlife. Suffice to say, it got very messy!

Can these type of chairs be hired?

Respectfully, this is your mother's money. If she wishes to spend it, you can't stop her.

Respectfully, DM has dementia and this is bollocks.

As PoA OP is fully responsible for her mother’s money and and she will have to show that she has managed her DM’s money responsibly and to her benefit.

My aunty was a bit like this before she passed away, plenty of money and happy to spend it but she was in poor health so we all accepted she couldn’t take the money with her and it made her happy.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned as there’s so many posts but hoarding can also create problems. If there’s stuff everywhere, it can delay hospital discharge and it poses a fire risk. Plus if you can’t find your stuff you’ll buy more which perpetuates the problem.

Could you encourage her to think about a luxury supported living complex? Some of them have salons onsite so they’re a lovely experience but the care costs can be lower because it’s shared across the site. They also have quite a lot of activities which may divert your mum for spending!

I’d also forecast her baseline costs against the money she has, based on her living to 100. That will give a maximum spend per year and a budget to stick to, you could convey this to carers too so they understand the situation.

OP you can look in The Lady magazine and get private carers who are self employed.
That'll cost you a lot less than £2000 a week.

Don't think riser recliners come on the NHS.

When DM first came out of hospital, no-one suggested that she have one, despite the OT and physio providing her with all sorts of other equipment to help with ADL. I get the impression they don't recommend them because a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford to buy one.

If your mother is comfortably off (which it sounds as if she is), I'm not sure the carer is doing anything wrong. She's just trying to ensure your DM has the best quality of life possible, surely?

FWIW, upsizing TV is probably a good thing with the elderly. DP have an incredibly small one that you almost need to use a telescope to watch. With failing sight, it's not great to be watching on such as small screen.

Provided she has the ability to use the controls, this could massively improve her comfort and quality of life

As she has dementia, she'll soon forget how to use the controls.

My dad bought one of these chairs not sure what company he bought it from but it cost over a £1000. ( about 5 years ago )
I told him he could have bought a second hand one for £100 but he went ahead and bought it new.
After he died last year we sent it to a charity shop as it was difficult to sell privately.
First of all they are heavy to lift due the electric mechanism so difficult for someone to get into a small vehicle.
We tried local nursing homes but they weren't interested even for less than £50.
It was in very good condition btw
We ended up donating along side other furniture to a hospice charity who had a van and two men to collect it.
Smaller charities weren't interested due to lack of delivery / collection options / space in their shops.
Also I have worked in a charity furniture store and due to health & safety of drivers we were not allowed to sell these chairs to anyone in first or second floor flats without a lift due to the weight of the product.
So although dad loved his chair it was a complete waste of money and a complete pain to get rid of after he died.
On the plus side the hospice shop that finally took it got some money out of it.

The dementia is clearly affecting your Mum's cognitive ability in terms of understanding money. You have power of attorney and need to tell the carers that spending (perhaps above a certain weekly amount) has to be agreed with you first. It is really hard, I know. I have a different situation with similarities with an adult daughter with additional needs and no understanding of money. It's a nightmare to stop the unnecessary spending on rubbish, even if it means there's nothing left to spend on basics. You will need to be like a broken record, both to your Mum and carers 'there isn't enough money for this item' again and again. Good luck.

Could you not use private healthcare for the OT referral ?

"I used to sell these chairs for a living".

Yes, you can tell.

I don’t think I’d quibble about the chair if it will make her life easier, but I agree you should make sure she’s getting what she pays for. I would certainly be having a word with the care agency though, regarding the carers’ behaviour around DM’s money. Have any of you got Lasting Power of Attorney for her - if she has been diagnosed with dementia and you haven’t got LPA you need to do it before she loses capacity, and ensure that it’s usable as soon as it’s registered so that you have a say in what’s going on now.

The problem as far as I can see, is that as the dementia progresses, any financial abuse that may be involved on the part of the carer will just get worse. At least with an LPA you could put a stop to it by withdrawing the bank card and supervising any further withdrawals.

No, but there are plenty of them on Ebay.

She has a point though. If DM has already tried the chair and thinks it’s suitable for her needs, then why not, if she has the funds for it. I have rheumatoid arthritis and bought one of these chairs a while back - cost just over 3k and it’s made such a difference. I shopped around and the cheaper ones are not the same - you get what you pay for, as long as it’s doing what it says on the tin, so to speak.

When my mother got dementia, she lost her ability to gauge the value of money. A bit like a child she didn't know that £50 was 'more than' £20.
Or that £1 coin was 'more than' a 50p.

She'd be handing money in a shop and asking the person at the till to 'you take how much it is love'.

But all the while appearing 'fine' to the casual observer.

A useful tip might be to pause or delay the ordering of things for a couple of weeks because she might forget about it.

It might be possible to buy a second-hand riser chair.

But surely if your dad loved the chair it wasn’t a waste of money.

And this is really the point isn’t it ? If DM is swayed by the carers’ expensive tastes and is burning through her funds then her condition, and how far the dementia has progressed, really needs to be reviewed. Not saying that the carer is exactly financially abusing her, but it’s not hard to see how it could tip over into abuse when the dementia is advanced. Time for lasting power of attorney if it hasn’t already been done, and then withdrawing the bank card from the carer, or at least imposing a weekly withdrawal limit it on it with the bank.