DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

I can't help you with the cost of such a chair but I'd be a tad concerned at the influence this cater seems to have over your mum with regard to spending mum's money.

I really hope you've got Power of Attorney in place and a 3rd Party agreement in place with your mum's bank.

All I know is that I love Stressless chairs and some of them are nearly £4k! Although a salesman coming sounds very much like there's a middle man to pay here, on top of the supply.

If its her money that fine but if she is going to run out then her caring arrangement may be in jeopardy.

She may have some cognitive ability but not be able to reconcile spending now with an affect on her future.

If she still has capacity and is in charge of her finances I guess the only thing you can do is explain to her- maybe in figures - how long her income and savings will.support her caring arrangements and how she needs to be careful in everyday spending to secure that arrangement.

If she needs the chair though, she needs one. Although it may be cheaper to buy from a store and certainly would be from gumtree!

The chair is unlikely to be worth 4.5k. I’d look for pre-loved (ebay etc)

Is the carer employed through an agency?

Rise and recliner chairs aren't always recommended for those with failing memories/health as it can cause more accidents (falling out of chair etc). It's worth seeing an nhs occupational therapist for a proper assessment of needs (not a private company whom is going to say you need the most expensive). If they think it's suitable/appropriate you could then look around and get a cheaper one because that sounds extortionate. You can often get reconditioned ones through charities that might help. I think I'd be very concerned about the influence of the carers and look at safeguarding issues, responsibilities of money, power of attorney etc.

This is all really useful, thank you so much for taking the time.

Yes the carer is through a nationwide agency, which charges an absolute fortune (nearly 2k a week). It made sense when my dad was alive as his needs were constantly evolving and we knew we needed flexibility for the likely short time he would live in order that he stay at home.

It means we've got into this big bucks spending and DM feels v entitled. She was furious when I cut the live-in carers from two to one when he died - they weren't even supposed to be caring for her but she's turned into some sort of dowager duchess!

I like the main carer who makes my life easier by taking a lot of initiative. But god she loves spending other people's money. So much smoked salmon! She's always on at me for something - the most expensive Dyson, a new bigger TV etc. We are in control of my mother's finances but carer can use the card and also asks for stuff. I don't think she's dodgy, but she's deeply irritating. We have POA. It feels like we're being put into a tricky position when we're asked for stuff. I would have liked to have been asked before the chair company came round - we just got sent photos of DM looking gleeful in the 'deluxe' model and told she'd already chosen the fabric.

I'm chasing NHS OT now, but you know what that's like...

In answer to q, up above, she does seem to have completely lost sense of the value of money. It's like pounds are pesetas. Like when I reduced it to one live-in carer, she just kept on saying that the additional carer did her nails. I stupidly tried to say to her - look if you have a second carer for an extra month that's going to cost you nearly £10,000 more, do you understand what most people have to do to earn that amount of money?

I'd go 2nd hand as late FIL got one that hadn't even been used (Ebay) and he barely used his. Sadly this is often the case where elderly person goes downhill fast - especially after a broken hip like FIL. They are heavy though if you have to collect. https://www.reclinerfactory.com/ was recommended to us.

Like others I would have serious concerns about carer and money

Would she be able to operate it?

The Recliner Factory are our £4.5k merchants! It's annoying because I bet without the carer's involvement we could buy her a nice refurbished non-bespoke one and it would be fine. But now it'll go into my mother's burn book of spending grievances.

Yes the carer is through a nationwide agency, which charges an absolute fortune (nearly 2k a week)

That is an insane amount of money. So you have complete control over her finances? Can you terminate this agreement and choose a carer that doesn’t encourage her to buy 6 cashmere jumpers a week?!

I think you need to tell the carers that her funds are running out and they need to not enable her spending frivolously.

It may or not be strictly true but it's silly buying lots of new clothes if the money is better spent elsewhere.

My Mother with dementia never got the hang of using this type of chair. Would recline it but forget how to right it again and would - very unsafely - climb out.

Would.she understand more if you wrote it down?

I'm.assuming your Mum has very good savings and probably an exceptionally good pension too, given the arrangements that have been in place. You are of course POA for her and her needs.

What do the budgets look like - is her caring arrangement in jeopardy if she lives for many more years?

Does your mum have a social worker? You and the carer should be at multi disciplinary meetings where her financial arrangements will form part of the discussion.

My mum got stuck in her recliner chair during a power cut. She didn't have the strength or mobility to get out of it. Eventually she pressed her emergency button, and they rang round her contacts one of whom came out and helped her out. It was an eventuality that had never crossed my mind.

Could the live in carer be replaced with a PA, someone who comes maybe 3 hours a day, tidies up, takes her shopping, to get her hair done and for walks etc? Or does she needs help washing and feeding?

could she be persuaded to sell the big house and move into a retirement village? There are some lovely, very MC ones near me. Probably v expensive but much cheaper than a carer. They usually have someone coming in weekly for hair and nails etc. It sounds like if she had more company she would be less dependent on the carer.

DM has quite a bit of inherited money. It's not a pension or money she's earnt, most of it came from inheriting a very large house (larger even than the one she's currently living in).

It's tricky because there is enough money to keep going for really quite a long time. But why spend crazy amounts of money when we could spend less? But even saying that feels like we're trying to penny pinch. It's all so ironic as they were so parsimonious growing up - like I got no maintenance money at university, we never went on holiday, we barely got given birthday presents.

And the more crap that gets bought from the internet, the more decluttering will fall to me. She has 200 scarves! Loads with their tags unpopped.

She doesn't have a social worker. Because they've got money, most of the arrangements have been done privately. The NHS GP just told me that now was the time to "turn on the money hose".

this, does the carer come from a company or are they private, encouraging your mum to shop.and spend is unethical imo and 5 k for a chair my god!

I'm concerned that the carer had control of a bank card. My sister had dementia and the care agency would never have allowed their staff to be using a client's card. There is risk on both sides here. What is your mother accuses the carer of theft?
The bank would have a field day with the fact that your mother lets her use the card, and presumably knows the PIN!!

I think I’d be having a word with the agency about the influence this carer isn having.

I think unfortunately we can't replace the live-in carer with a PA as because of my father, we got used to having high amounts of care. She's now so reliant and deskilled that she feels that one is not enough (she needs one for her nails!).

She was adamant that she wanted to go into a home so we let this ridiculous situation mushroom. Then as soon as DF died, she bedded in to the big house with the live-in servant carer.

And if I try to reduce it or make changes, I get vitriole. She thinks because we're not doing the hands-on stuff, that we do nothing. I spend hours and hours dealing with finances, organising the carers, chasing up appointments, the usual. Of course I recognise that I'm incredibly fortunate that I'm not doing the day to day caring.

Thank you all so much for your reassurance. You've given me a useful slap (in the nicest possible way) and the encouragement I need to change carers and stop paying these hideous agency fees.

It sounds as if shopping has turned into a hobby for the two of them. 200 scarves is madness. I would be asking the carer to help your Mum get out a bit, in a wheelchair if needs be. The dynamic of the two of them needs to be disrupted.

sorry I didn't read on I would put a spending limit on your mum's card and speak to the carer who isn't actually caring for an old lady with dementia properly.

But if she's got enough money to pay for it, why shouldn't she spend her money on whatever she wants? Honestly, if she has enough that paying for £2k a week in carers fees is manageable for an extended period, then why quibble about a £4k chair if she feels she wants it? And multiple scarves or cashmere sweaters or whatever she wants? My mum is in a similar situation and I encourage her to buy whatever she wants, because it's her money. At 80-odd with presumably multiple hundreds of thousands in the bank, then let he spend whatever she wants!