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Elderly parents

DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

583 replies

Valleyofthedollymix · 30/01/2024 14:51

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

OP posts:
Olidora · 30/01/2024 22:58

tara66 · 30/01/2024 20:07

I read an article recently that said some carers actually have criminal records and they manage to get jobs as carers because they are difficult to fill because the salaries are so low. Also it said most of them have not had even basic medical training.
Would you not tell the carer that she is over stepping the remit of her job -which she certainly seems to be doing? I think I would.
It seems she took it upon herself to get the chair bought at great expense - although they are endlessly advertised on SKY NEWS and seem really ugly..
Might your DM leave all/some inheritance to said carer (which may well happen and she is free to do)?
Can you ask for daily report of the carer's visits or better still get concealed video camera with sound if such a thing exists?

Carers are DBS checked . I actually find this thread really offensive towards the majority of carers who are decent lovely people trying to earn a living. Many of them have not had the opportunities in life to progress ,but it doesn’t mean they are wilfully taking advantage of the vulnerable .
I feel defensive because I am a registered nurse and work with carers who absolutely love and care for their clients,work stupidly long hours , rubbish pensions,attend their funerals and really are the best people that anyone could ever meet.
I consider myself very fortunate that I don’t work 12 hour shifts 5 days a week to pay my bills and survive. Am sure many others would feel the same.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 30/01/2024 22:59

My mum had dementia and went downhill very quickly after her diagnosis, though her general health had been very poor for years. It's very hard to balance not shutting off what they enjoy and stopping them from pissing it all away, although my mum had such a rich fantasy life that she didn't actually ask for much in the real world ("Hello, Carter, I've just ordered you a Bugatti!" "Ooh, thanks, Mum!"). She was in a very good care home for complex dementia sufferers (entirely justified best interests decision by the NHS and LA) which made everything much easier, and she really bonded with the staff.

Take control of the money. You have POA. Your mum trusted you to make those decisions when she lost her ability to make them for herself and she obviously valued good financial decisions. Review everything about her care. Has the agency assessed your mum's care needs or did your dad's carer just stay on? If she needs a comfy chair, and she might, get a private OT to come and evaluate, and possibly a physio too if she's having trouble moving independently.

And if you're keeping this agency/carer (I don't know that I would but I know these decisions are hard on the ground), take control of the carer. Get the agency involved to underline it. Make sure the carer understands that you hold the purse strings. It's totally inappropriate for the carer to have organised a sales pitch for a £5K piece of furniture to a disabled and demented person in her care who doesn't have capacity to manage her money. It's your job to make sure your mum doesn't run out of money. You know that it's better for your mum to be sad she's not getting a chair she doesn't need (if that is the case - ask an OT) than to keep throwing money at unnecessary things and run out of money in five years' time. Where's the super expensive carer going to be then? How's she going to stay in her house? Keep an eye on the long game and weather your mum's resentment, just like she did yours when you were too small to make good decisions.

I sympathise hugely. This is horrible. She's obviously not herself in many ways from what you say and watching the person you loved slowly being replaced by someone irrational and selfish is very hard. But there will come a time when you will be able to remember your mum as she was before this illness got her.

StopStartStop · 30/01/2024 23:03

My (now late) mother had a riser-recliner chair. Shortly after purchase it stopped rising or reclining. The chair is so heavy we still can't move it. My mother has been gone ten years.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 30/01/2024 23:05

StopStartStop · 30/01/2024 23:03

My (now late) mother had a riser-recliner chair. Shortly after purchase it stopped rising or reclining. The chair is so heavy we still can't move it. My mother has been gone ten years.

They normally come apart. My cousin wrestled my mum's into two pieces and got the council to take it away (it wasn't fit to re-home).

StopStartStop · 30/01/2024 23:07

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 30/01/2024 23:05

They normally come apart. My cousin wrestled my mum's into two pieces and got the council to take it away (it wasn't fit to re-home).

Thank you for that tip, I'll keep it in mind. My dad is still with us and I think it would disturb him if we moved it now, but it's good to know how to go about moving it.

ecosystem · 30/01/2024 23:15

4.5K is an unreasonable amount for a recliner chair. There are some very comfy one in mobility centres - a trip out to try other options would be worth it. It is not the carers role to 'encourage' your Mum to spend. I do know that dementia, even mild dementia can change the relationship with money.

singswithitsfingers · 30/01/2024 23:19

We paid about £5k a month for live in care through a well known agency. This was three years ago so appreciate it will have gone up since then but surely not to as much as you are paying? We were very pleased with the carer, who ended up staying a long time, and having the back up of the agency g ft it all sorts of stuff as well as covering her holiday etc. so you could certainly shop around for different agencies. But if you are keen to stay with currently one, definitely speak to the carer's manager about the spending, and take away the bank card.

Davros · 30/01/2024 23:25

Do not buy one of these chairs privately. Get an OT assessment, these chairs can be provided at no cost, regardless of finances, by OT/social services. We have two, one in the living room and one in DH's bedroom. We pay for care but adaptations, equipment, accessible bathrooms etc are not means tested.

Radyward · 30/01/2024 23:27

You absolutely do not sound sniffy .
That carer needs to go.
Needs to have no access to your mums card.
New carer- with rules around spending. Of course your mum should enjoy her momey BUT there is dementia at play plus utter wastage of money on needless stuff. No to that chair until private OT assessment if no NHS available. Crazy and you are dead right to be concerned regarding the influence of the carer

FaiIureToLunch · 30/01/2024 23:29

get Rid of the carer

my dad was rinsed by his.

ithinkthatmaybeimdreaming · 30/01/2024 23:29

I would talk to someone knowledgeable about the chair to see if it would have a benefit for your DM, there isn't much point if she is going to struggle with how to use it. Also do some research, you might be able to get one for a better price.

I do however think that if such a chair is suitable then she should be able to spend her money however she likes. I totally disagree about someone who inherits money being a custodian of it - once it becomes their money they can head off to the nearest casino if that is what they wish! One of my friends happily spent her DM's and FIL's money on expensive chairs and beds to make their life more comfortable in old age, even though they didn't get to enjoy them for long.

Midwinter91 · 30/01/2024 23:51

You keep saying ‘we’ could spend less, but it’s her money not yours

Noped · 31/01/2024 00:23

Wise up OP! I think from what you are posting that you are understandably overwhelmed with a situation not of your choosing. Fact is though you are in charge of making sure your DM is being cared for appropriately and not being taken advantage of.

I have 2 decades of experience both being a carer in other people's homes and employing carers for family members. Everything about your posts rings alarm bells. The main carer is not being professional, not being appropriate and not behaving in the patient's/(client's) best interest.

Your mother is not well, she has a degenerative disease and caring for her should be about getting professional expert assistance when needed. Any professional carer worth their salt should know this, so;

equipment query - OT first port of call every time, OT will perhaps add physio, try out centre, equipment reps etc

food choices/ compulsion - Dietician referral and maybe GP for blood tests combined with redirection to good healthy diet options and behaviour management/distraction techniques to avoid binge eating etc

spending choices/ compulsion - hobbies/outings/socialising to redirect - basically more behaviour management/distraction techniques to avoid binge spending etc

If the 6 cashmere jumpers in a week or all out tantrum is no exaggeration why isn't the carer at worst just rewrapping (with your agreement obviously) already bought brand new items for the dopamine hit without the waste? This is not about controlling spending it is about symptom management. Why isn't the carer helping tidy up the wardrobe with your DM to show what she has already - put together planned outfits etc for the same activity with zero waste?

Being a carer is not just about doing what is needed. Being a carer for a physical disability is about levelling access and doing what is asked whilst encouraging independence, resilience, strength etc. Being a carer for a cognitive disability (particularly a degenerative one) also involves more guidance and patterning - nudge psychology if you will. This is how the job of ensuring healthy medication/exercise/hygiene etc routine is done happily, by building rapport with the patient.

Your DM's main carer is nudging in the wrong direction. Add to that involving you in agency management, manipulating your guilt and the encouraging of distancing tensions within the family and you have a problem.

There should never just be one paid carer, it is encouraging of an unhealthy dynamic (as you are discovering) and creates issues if someone is ill or not being professional.

I would swap the carer team and if you haven't done so you really ought to check the receipts for stuff bought compulsively against what is still in the house. It may be possible to return unused items and, because your theft focus seems to be on money - which you rightly state would be obviously missed, however things in a cluttered shopaholic house? not so much. Are you checking the supermarket receipts or just looking at the total?

Of course the carer is lovely, (she couldn't guilt you about money by being anything else!) But lovely doesn't absolve lack of professionalism and in worst case could be a smokescreen for taking the piss. You said;

I genuinely don't think the carer is scamming and we have full oversight of my mother's accounts and she tends to run expenses by us. She's not a bad person, far from it. I think she likes being the facilitator for the fleeting joy my mother gets from spending money and getting deliveries.

but this is not what a professional care for someone with dementia looks like, this is not encouraging fleeting joy in active, productive or creative pursuits. It isn't even taking her on an outing to the shop to get her out of the house is it?

I like the main carer who makes my life easier by taking a lot of initiative. But god she loves spending other people's money. So much smoked salmon! She's always on at me for something - the most expensive Dyson, a new bigger TV etc. We are in control of my mother's finances but carer can use the card and also asks for stuff. I don't think she's dodgy, but she's deeply irritating. We have POA. It feels like we're being put into a tricky position when we're asked for stuff. I would have liked to have been asked before the chair company came round - we just got sent photos of DM looking gleeful in the 'deluxe' model and told she'd already chosen the fabric.

You are being manipulated. What happened to the old dyson or the old tv btw? Think, even overlooking the total bypass of OT consult, why would any carer purposefully set up a sales rep meeting for a compulsive spender without inviting you along? Because you are being set up as the challenger instead of the understandably concerned relative.

Good luck OP, please keep in mind that your DM is altered and hopefully you will both have a better chance of getting along better with more appropriate care in place that encourages your relationship instead of distancing it. Beware that this carer doesn't become a bad penny type "friend" if you replace her.

Sorry for the essay, just trying to illustrate from one what has been there too, stick with it! If it was me I would employ carers directly (not easy but you can pay a good rate, do your own interviewing and checks and supplement with another agency in the meantime) and I would change the locks and be around a lot during change over. In my experience of working in the care industry 70% are there doing a great job with heart and soul, 30% are there because they don't have many job options - your description is not heart and soul variety.

If you are not already in touch with local carer support groups get on their lists, there are always free online courses being run on stress management, disease progression and support, employing directly and dealing with this sort of situation.

DodoTired · 31/01/2024 00:49

I have only read the first page. I’m so sorry but I think you’ll have to learn to say “no” and just ignore the anger/vitriol. It is very hard but it’s not really your mum’s anger, it’s her dementia’s anger…

ZephrineDrouhin · 31/01/2024 01:03

But the OP thinks she might have to sell the house and go into a home and people with dementia can live for years. Yes, admittedly at 82, it's unlikely to be decades but she could quite conceivably live to 90. What she do with all the cashmere sweaters given that she is not going out? Or the scarves or whatever. I don't think your mother would think of buying 6 cashmere sweaters in a week without the input of the carer. I would get rid of the carer as they seem to be far too keen to spend your mother's money. The chair sounds positively dangerous and the carer should not have had the demonstration and fabric choosing before talking to you about such an expensive item. I don't think it's wrong to consider your inheritance which thanks to the carer is being frittered away. Like another poster I don't think your previously frugal ancestors would want it to be spent that way either. I loved my mother a great deal and miss her dreadfully but I am grateful for my inheritance which has given us financial security. I like to think my mother would be happy about that.

Damnedidont · 31/01/2024 01:08

My riser as good as new and £50. They come up quite a lot on Facebook marketplace, ebay etc

Growlybear83 · 31/01/2024 01:13

My mother in law had a chair like that which she really loved. After a number of years the motor stopped working and it wasn't repairs me but by that time she had developed dementia and mobility problems, and social services paid for a new one for her. It might be worth exploring that as a possibility?

Remotel · 31/01/2024 01:28

tokesqueen · 30/01/2024 16:32

What would you rather she did with it?
Pass it down maybe?

I presume not run out of money and have to go from being cared for in her own home to no choice of potentially substandard care home. Unless you’re just trying to suggest the worst. OP is being pretty self reflective here so that’s unnecessary.

Remotel · 31/01/2024 01:31

Noped · 31/01/2024 00:23

Wise up OP! I think from what you are posting that you are understandably overwhelmed with a situation not of your choosing. Fact is though you are in charge of making sure your DM is being cared for appropriately and not being taken advantage of.

I have 2 decades of experience both being a carer in other people's homes and employing carers for family members. Everything about your posts rings alarm bells. The main carer is not being professional, not being appropriate and not behaving in the patient's/(client's) best interest.

Your mother is not well, she has a degenerative disease and caring for her should be about getting professional expert assistance when needed. Any professional carer worth their salt should know this, so;

equipment query - OT first port of call every time, OT will perhaps add physio, try out centre, equipment reps etc

food choices/ compulsion - Dietician referral and maybe GP for blood tests combined with redirection to good healthy diet options and behaviour management/distraction techniques to avoid binge eating etc

spending choices/ compulsion - hobbies/outings/socialising to redirect - basically more behaviour management/distraction techniques to avoid binge spending etc

If the 6 cashmere jumpers in a week or all out tantrum is no exaggeration why isn't the carer at worst just rewrapping (with your agreement obviously) already bought brand new items for the dopamine hit without the waste? This is not about controlling spending it is about symptom management. Why isn't the carer helping tidy up the wardrobe with your DM to show what she has already - put together planned outfits etc for the same activity with zero waste?

Being a carer is not just about doing what is needed. Being a carer for a physical disability is about levelling access and doing what is asked whilst encouraging independence, resilience, strength etc. Being a carer for a cognitive disability (particularly a degenerative one) also involves more guidance and patterning - nudge psychology if you will. This is how the job of ensuring healthy medication/exercise/hygiene etc routine is done happily, by building rapport with the patient.

Your DM's main carer is nudging in the wrong direction. Add to that involving you in agency management, manipulating your guilt and the encouraging of distancing tensions within the family and you have a problem.

There should never just be one paid carer, it is encouraging of an unhealthy dynamic (as you are discovering) and creates issues if someone is ill or not being professional.

I would swap the carer team and if you haven't done so you really ought to check the receipts for stuff bought compulsively against what is still in the house. It may be possible to return unused items and, because your theft focus seems to be on money - which you rightly state would be obviously missed, however things in a cluttered shopaholic house? not so much. Are you checking the supermarket receipts or just looking at the total?

Of course the carer is lovely, (she couldn't guilt you about money by being anything else!) But lovely doesn't absolve lack of professionalism and in worst case could be a smokescreen for taking the piss. You said;

I genuinely don't think the carer is scamming and we have full oversight of my mother's accounts and she tends to run expenses by us. She's not a bad person, far from it. I think she likes being the facilitator for the fleeting joy my mother gets from spending money and getting deliveries.

but this is not what a professional care for someone with dementia looks like, this is not encouraging fleeting joy in active, productive or creative pursuits. It isn't even taking her on an outing to the shop to get her out of the house is it?

I like the main carer who makes my life easier by taking a lot of initiative. But god she loves spending other people's money. So much smoked salmon! She's always on at me for something - the most expensive Dyson, a new bigger TV etc. We are in control of my mother's finances but carer can use the card and also asks for stuff. I don't think she's dodgy, but she's deeply irritating. We have POA. It feels like we're being put into a tricky position when we're asked for stuff. I would have liked to have been asked before the chair company came round - we just got sent photos of DM looking gleeful in the 'deluxe' model and told she'd already chosen the fabric.

You are being manipulated. What happened to the old dyson or the old tv btw? Think, even overlooking the total bypass of OT consult, why would any carer purposefully set up a sales rep meeting for a compulsive spender without inviting you along? Because you are being set up as the challenger instead of the understandably concerned relative.

Good luck OP, please keep in mind that your DM is altered and hopefully you will both have a better chance of getting along better with more appropriate care in place that encourages your relationship instead of distancing it. Beware that this carer doesn't become a bad penny type "friend" if you replace her.

Sorry for the essay, just trying to illustrate from one what has been there too, stick with it! If it was me I would employ carers directly (not easy but you can pay a good rate, do your own interviewing and checks and supplement with another agency in the meantime) and I would change the locks and be around a lot during change over. In my experience of working in the care industry 70% are there doing a great job with heart and soul, 30% are there because they don't have many job options - your description is not heart and soul variety.

If you are not already in touch with local carer support groups get on their lists, there are always free online courses being run on stress management, disease progression and support, employing directly and dealing with this sort of situation.

This is a great post.

DeeCeeCherry · 31/01/2024 02:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NewJeans · 31/01/2024 03:24

Maybe the carer is encouraging this spending because it keeps your mum busy, means she could get herself out of the chair, carer doesn't have to deal with the temper tantrum if she tries to dissuade your mum from spending. So the carer can do less caring. Are there still two of them? Carers could be spending all the time chatting or on her phone/watching TV if there's just one. Even if she's not stealing stuff, which she easily could be. At best she's lazy and not doing the job well.

MsJinks · 31/01/2024 06:30

The private physio recommended a recline/rise chair for my mum, but also advised on an OT assessment to make sure we got the right one for my mum and not to go to a mobility type place as their main aim is to sell you one. They advised to go via GP for a free assess but this was taking ages to be fair.
The physio did advise the chair she had was poor for her posture, and she did slip sideways in it impacting her shoulders and the pain she had - so they’re not just for ease of getting up.
I don’t know if the price is good or not as we didn’t get to it in the end, but definitely get an OT assessment to ensure the chair is right. You may possibly be offered one for free depending how severely your mum’s needs are, but either way can still buy one instead that’s more pleasing to her just you will know what she needs.
My parents definitely liked buying in the last few years, but this was a lockdown version of their previous travelling around collecting- I’m not enjoying sorting it but I do know they enjoyed collecting it. If my mum wanted anything (after my dad passed) then I got it, as that was how they had lived lately - they too were strict with cash in younger years but earned, saved etc so could enjoy it. I get the worry it may run out and force a change of circumstances but as long as there’s still plenty a while, and it’s justifiable spending then I think that’s ok and don’t worry too much.
I had remote control curtains put in - to a ceiling that will be changed by next owner, but it helped my mum’s life a lot - she used to say she had enough clothes at times but look a bit sad and so I’d still buy some new to cheer her up - she continued with very expensive wine purchases they always had. I didn’t replace/upgrade anything irrelevant to her comfort or disruptive- eg/ got a good fan rather than install aircon that she fancied one day! I do wish they’d spent more earlier on holidays perhaps as care was eating most of it, which they hadn’t realised when being super careful to make sure they could see out their days ok, but there was enough so it was also useful for comfort and some enjoyment. Honestly don’t overthink or worry - it’s a strain ensuring you’re doing your best for them and their financial situation I know so look after yourself too.

oakleaffy · 31/01/2024 06:54

@Valleyofthedollymix that carer sounds absolutely awful.
how do you know your. other isn't being coerced into spending by this woman who may be creaming off money for herself?

Carers can be wonderful and responsible...or completely focussed on themselves...What if she get's left the house? it happens.

I knew of a younger man who was left a valuable house while the family {his only son was the family with whom he had a good relationship } got nothing.

The younger man knew full well what he was doing
I had a text from him saying ''I got my wish {The house} is mine''.

People were really shocked.

{Dementia}

Willmafrockfit · 31/01/2024 06:56

interesting point made above about the riser recliner, i looked after a lady who had one, but in the day she went to the sitting room of the retirement home and getting her up from the chair was an absolute feat, as was getting her off the loo.

ElisabethZott · 31/01/2024 07:09

This happened with my MIL and her carer who I think encouraged her spending . There was a new car (rarely driven, probably x 3 in two years, conservatory which was only ever used as a storage room for zimmer, commode etc, mobility scooter used once, privately bought stair lift to annexe in dorma bungalow (never used by MIL) riser recline chair, expensive clothes. She also sold off percentages of her house so when she died there was only a value of £35k left. My ExH ( her son) and Ex SIL had the view that it was her money and she derived pleasure spending it, which she did. I think they can look back and feel happy that their mum, regardless of wasting money, enjoyed her latter years. She was a formidably strong character, not someone I’d like to fall out with over her hard earned cash, also she genuinely loved her carer. I know OP you are concerned about paying for future care but if we all thought too far ahead we’d be scared to plan anything plus you said the house could be sold to finance ongoing needs/ care home

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