DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

The OP's mother is 82 with mild dementia. My DF was in that situation at that age. He's now 90, in a nursing home which costs over £60,000 per year, and it's not impossible that he could be there for years yet.

An 82 year old could have easily have a decade's worth of care to pay for, so pissing the money away on cashmere jumpers which won't be worn, is not wise.

We got ours from DFS, DH needs it. Take her there, the salesmen are very friendly, obviously want to make a sale, she can choose the fabric and it will cost under £`1k

My DM has one of the riser/recliner chairs. On the whole I think it is a good thing especially as DM now has back and hip problems which are badly affecting her mobility.

The one she has now has been going for a number of years. I think it was bought secondhand.

The first one was allegedly new, cost significantly more and broke down within a very small number of weeks.

It was heavily sold to DM. It took a bit of effort to get her money back. They sent an 'engineer' out who was no doubt going to claim DM had caused the motor to burn out. He was a bit put out when he arrived to find me there saying I had crawled under it and taken lots of pictures. He didn't stay more than 5 minutes. Didn't look at the chair and made big legs out of the door, saying he would need to speak to 'head office'.

DM had to take them to the small claims court to get her money back.

It's a real shame and she does seem like she is being taken advantage of and screwed over by the carer. At the end of the day her 200 scarfs are going to Binned in house clearance so of course its a waste of money. Let's hope there is enough money let in her estate to bin all of the brand new crap into landfill.

She has dementia and is vulnerable. But I'm not sure what you do.

@herewegoagainonmydog and @Valleyofthedollymix as another OT I can't see where it says they are at risk of falls or have anything to suggest they are at risk of admission.....fine she is entitled to an OT ax, but not to jump a queue where others may have greater needs.

And irrelevant of that, riser recliners are not always best and would be unlikely to prescribed by either a health or Social Services OT at present as a first point of call, without other needs that we haven't been made aware of. They can stand people up very quickly so you actually .at need quite good balance. If used every time people can become reliant on them...that can then make other transfers such as toilet and bed difficult even with equipment as there isn't the raising action. Those chairs aren't future proof either as may not work with Rotundas or hoists.

Yes OP please ask for an Occupational Therapy ax but could also consider finding a disabled living centre where chairs can be tried before purchase if you have one locally. If she is having problems standing and may be at risk of falls, then she potentially needs a period of rehab to increase her strength, stamina, Transfers and mobility.....especially of she isn't getting much practise at doing things if the carers does all her tasks for her.....

Can you have a 'quiet' word with the carer and let her know that youre concerned how your dm will manage without her given that she'll have run out of money in a couple of months unless she stops her spending?

It is your job to keep an eye on the finances for your mum's benefit. If she were a multi millionaire that might be another matter, but if she would be facing penury in the future, it's worth at least thinking about how to rein this in. I can well understand it - after all the carer alone costs over £100000 a year, plus costs of house etc, and she's no longer able to make those plans.

Furniture that presents a possible risk to her isn't just a fun purchase either.

Brutal honesty... how is your mum's memory? If she had the fun of going through the catalogues and choosing stuff, which never actually turned up, would she be upset? Or would she consider making a list of things to buy next week..? Or could she get into Vinted??

However, I think if you have a nice carer she likes, and you've never yet had the conversation about this, it's well worth talking to the carer about whether there's another way to handle it. I certainly wouldn't rush to a nursing home.

My mum had a riser chair and it was a lifeline in her last few years. She stayed at home which was her wish and I don’t think it would have been possible without the “chair”. We then donated to the hospice charity so someone could use it.
we shopped around and found a local firm who came to the house with 3 or 4 in her chosen colour scheme in the back of a van for mum to try without having to travel. It was reasonable value and worth every penny in our case.

I work for a charity that often buys them for people and I know the key is to really shop around (plus you can often get them 2nd hand)

I think your Mum is in a unhealthy dynamic with her care worker.

I would change carer and probably also change agency - £2k per week is ridiculous.

My MIL lives 300 miles away and has a daily care worker. We deal with all finances. The care worker has a pre loaded card to buy the weeks shopping and also additional stuff MIL needs like underwear. We top it up each week but it never has more than £200 on it.

Me again.

I think the carer might be a red herring here.

People are allowed to make bad choices.

Mental capacity is decision specific. You can't just say 'she doesn't have capacity to buy 200 scarves'.

I'm not saying you are btw OP.

If she's enjoying the carer and is safe then maybe it's just a case of setting financial boundaries. If you actually think the carer is financially abusing her then that's different. That's a safeguarding concern.

I'd imagine there's a middle ground here where a conversation can be had around best interests.

What does she need? What's necessary? How can that be facilitated?

The agency should have a risk assessment and care plan. Maybe it needs reviewing?

I'd be looking at a multi-agency review via Adult Social Services.

Your mum would do well to have a winged-Jack chair with wooden arms which cost a fraction of the price . Also , OT would recommend and provide a deep seat pad to ensure that her hips are at leat equal to the height of her knees or slightly above , to aid push-up.
She would also probably get a bath stool, bed leg risers, a bar to stop her falling out and a raised toilet seat.
They would assess if she could make a meal for herself and bathe herself.

She would then only require help with these tasks if really necessary, which she will pay for but much, much cheaper than a live in cater.

Then just buy in a weekly clean from a reputable cleaning company.

Tell the carer no more spending. Withdraw money from the account. Cancel the overdraft and let carer look daft a few times at the till if she goes against what you're telling her. Tell her the accounts been frauded due to internet purchases or something 😂
Do you think your mum is "treating" the cater too?

I do agree with you wondering if some of this is not her but the dementia. Especially as it is out of historic character.

Interestingly, I have heard of a person with dementia buying from charity shops the same type of item over and over until they had so many their closets were overflowing with them. I wonder if it could be a symptom?

The memory clinic consultant did an OT referral. However, it's just not happening and I'm getting trapped ringing endless different numbers and getting nowhere with it. I want to try to do through the consultant as he said to chase his PA if it wasn't forthcoming. However, the PA, when I finally spoke to her, said she didn't know which agency it was. You know how it is, you fall into this quagmire and everything takes so much longer than you anticipate.

The chair business is useful though as it's put a rocket up me to sort out the referral. And if I can't, someone upthread suggested a private OT.

There's definitely an unhealthy dynamic - DM has become much more enfeebled and incapable than I think she would have done had it not been for having the carers for my dad. She ended up sort of annexing them. It's much easier to do everything for her than to enable her to do it for herself.

All a bigger issue than the stupid chair, but it's sort of thrown it all into the foreground. The problem is that a) I have no experience of elderly care and b) I'm not there every day to make the right judgments. It's easier just to go along with everything suggested to me but I need to get a handle on it all now or she will run out of money eventually.

Meh, it's her money let her spend it on what she wants if it makes her happy. Sounds like you're just thinking about your inheritance tbh.

You’ve got a carer your dm likes and who takes initiative- great. I wouldn’t get rid, just discuss boundaries/ spending limits with the carer.
great carers are like gold dust. I put up with “st J” (mums carer)always taking precedence when searching for Xmas presents etc…. Because I knew she was looking after dm well.
wrt recliners- some have batteries to cope with power cuts. But please seek professional advice as they do deskill users.

@mrsm43s OP has stated that at this rate the money will run out.

@Whatevershallidowithmylife did you read the bit where OP said that the money was going to run out? Her Mum won’t be quite so happy when there’s no money left and she has to sell her house and go into a care home where she’s sharing a carer with multiple others.

This. She'll spend a lot of time in a chair so I think it's a sensible spend.

Yes we do have POA and she's lost capacity to use a bank card or deal with the bank in anyway. She can't use a mobile or the internet. Her spending is facilitated.

So she can't buy anything unless the carer helps/does it for her? Can you just tell the carer no more spending and to let you know if your dm wants anything? She doesn't need to know how much money your mum has so just point out to her that as she could live for another 20 years, you don't want her running out of money down the line.

Have you considered employing a carer directly rather than through an agency? I bet she sees a lot less than half of what you're paying them.

Def. Try second hand, you pick them up very cheaply, but be warned they are HEAVY and may need 2 people to lift it.

Why would the carer have use of a card?! I'd be having stern words about it and taking that away. If thats impractical, I would do a pre-loaded card for the basics and tell her it is limited. As for the cashmere jumpers and other big purchases, that is completely outside her remit and the purpose of a POA is to control the fact that your mother has list sense of reasonableness.

It's important that a riser recliner chair fits the person who's going to use it, so I wouldn't be going for any old secondhand one.

We had a quote for around £4500 for a chair made to measure for DH. It had two motors (ie the back and leg functions are separate). We then went to a local CareCo showroom and he tried several chairs in different styles and sizes. It was very obvious which ones fitted him and which ones didn't. He also found some markedly more comfortable than others. Eventually we settled on a 4 motor chair (separate back, leg, neck and lumbar adjustments) which was extremely comfortable and cost just over £2000. It was demonstrably superior to the made to measure one. There was a wide choice of upholstery fabric and colours too. That was one of their top end models, there were several very much cheaper.

We never regretted it, as it enabled him to retain some independence for much longer than he would otherwise have done.

So overall I'd say
it's not a question of not spending the money, it's about getting the right thing for her needs.
these chairs are expensive
they are not all created equal
it's easy to spend significantly more than you need and you might not get a better product
your DM is going to spend a LOT of time in that chair and it would be sensible for her to try several, not just one, before deciding which one suits her best.