DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

Haven't read the whole thread, but if you'have Financial PoA then use it !!

Limit the carers' spending on credit/debit cards to a reasonable weekly/monthly amount; any thing else must be sanctioned by you.

I genuinely don't think the carer is scamming and we have full oversight of my mother's accounts and she tends to run expenses by us. She's not a bad person, far from it. I think she likes being the facilitator for the fleeting joy my mother gets from spending money and getting deliveries. I think we can all recognise that high you can get from an internet delivery (which in my case is followed by a sense of disgust) and I think it provides excitement in what's a pretty narrow world.

But my mother has dementia. She has also eschewed a lifetime of obsessive dieting (and judging others' weight) in favour of cramming as much sugar as she can get. Boxes of biscuits, large slabs of chocolate, gu puddings... she eats in this bingey, grabby way that feels like the shackles coming off after a lifetime of denial. You could say why would we deny her the pleasure that sugar gives her? So what that she's gone up four dress sizes in three months? But we make decisions on behalf of those with dementia in the same way we don't let our children drink coke and eat haribo all day.

I'm so grateful for all these responses. It's galvinised me to chase the OT assessment and use it as a temporary block against buying the deluxe bespoke chair.

But it is not the carers job surely to say no to purchases or food, Simply to maybe encourage restraint. Much better to limit the amount of money on a weekly basis.

This is sensible advice IMO.

I'm also an OT. I think having the right chair is very important and worth an investment if you have the money, but I would be loathe to spend that much on a riser recliner. They can be very helpful, but they don't necessarily meet the longer term needs of those with progressive neurological conditions. I suppose if she finds it supremely comfortable and aesthetically pleasing you could go for it and accept that she may need another very expensive chair down the line, but I am sympathetic to your concerns about her altered attitude to money.

I can't speak for other services, but given that your mother seems to be safe (albeit spendy!) and has 24 hr care, I think she is unlikely to be a priority for OT assessment where there are waiting lists.

Good luck with it all.

I'd be a little concerned that career brought round this chair salesman. Is she on commission?😕

At £2000 a week just for carers, I would imagine that OPs mum is easily going through £150k a year if you then add living expenses. Even with a million in the bank that's gone in 7 years.

op has clearly stated she is worried the money will run out so maybe develop your comprehension skills before you accuse her of being a money grabbing mercenary.

if the OP was on here worrying that her mother was sending money to a Nigerian romance scam would you be telling her off for having her eyes on her inheritance or would you think she was being a sensible, concerned daughter.

£2000pw??? how much of that does the carer actually receive? You'd be charger employing her direct!!
I hope you have POA or if not get it sorted out.

The insinuation by some PPs is that the carer is benefiting financially ,but the money is being spent on the Mother ,not the carer .
I once looked after a wonderful old lady who was an ex GP ,no dependents and yet she apparently didn’t have any money! It didn’t add up because she should have had a decent pension and it was obvious that no money had been spent on her house since the 80s . Her clothes were threadbare, carpets had holes and a trip hazard.
Her niece the main beneficiary only provided Sainsburys savers food and was very irritated when I suggested that she needed new clothes and a ,new carpet because it was a trip hazard .
So I am quite cynical TBH !

(Going up 4 dress sizes in 3 months, you know that's extreme weight gain. You said you wouldn't let your kids eat haribo and drink cola all day so why let your mum eat that amount.

You've said a couple of times that she wanted to go into a home.
If this is still the case then could she not move to one ?
Costs would be roughly similar as the carer - £2k per week - but she'd have more company and stimulation and there would be less extraneous spending. It sounds like she is shopping because she is bored and carer is egging her on.

Plus she wouldn't have the expenses of maintaining the house, insurance, water, bills, council tax, food etc

OP, impulsive spending is a symptom of dementia. The carer should know this and not indulge mother.

You need to speak to the dementia care manager at the agency and raise a complaint. Either the carer does not have specialist dementia training or is not very good at her job.

PP’s saying that it’s her money and she should do what she wants with it are mistaken. As you have seen throughout your life, your mum, the real person before dementia set in, was not a big spender. This is part of her illness and she should be protected from it. That’s what your POA is for.

She wanted to move to a home when my father was alive as she hated living with him while he was dying. I sympathise as it was pretty traumatic but at the same time, they'd been married nearly 60 years and he adored her - he clung onto life as he felt he needed to look after her.

The minute he died, she said she was staying put. Which is of course her perogative but it brings extra challenges in that it's two hours away and brings extra admin (house, dog, carers). I want to facilitate her staying in the house if that's what she wants.

It is considerably more expensive to stay at home and we may well have to sell the house at some point to pay for the care anyway. I am now minded to start employing a carer direct as much as I like the carers individually, I absolutely ** hate the agency.

Hate to say this, but we had a career that encouraged various luxury items to be bought, which I didn’t think to keep track of. Quite a few mysteriously vanished. Just saying.

Sounds like some kind of financial abuse/lack of proper care on behalf of the agency. Might be worth a call to Adult Social Care.

The benefit of the agency is that they should give you a Care Manager who is someone you can complain to. Someone who you can ensure your views on your mothers care are taken into consideration. If the carer is sick, they provide an immediate replacement etc etc.

There are some shocking care agencies out there though. If your DM is within the M25 I know a fantastic dementia agency who can help you.

One of my aged relatives got a £4500 quote for a bespoke riser recliner. I talked him out of it . The riser-recliner shop offered to discount the price to £1500 - showing how inflated their original offer was.
His physio said he was better off lying down in bed for a nap, and sitting upright when he was up. That was then - obviously there are situations when rr chairs are a blessing - and he got a nice high-back, high-seat fixed armchair in his chosen fabric instead, for £300, from another shop.

She's not inside the M25 sadly.

If I think the relationship between DM and the carers is dysfunctional, it's nothing to the relationship between the carers and the agency! I spend a lot of time managing that one - the carers are always ringing me to bitch and complain and I think, gosh, I really can't believe we're paying so much money for me to have to manage this whininess. I spend a lot of time telling the carers, your happiness is paramount, when of course it should be my mother's.

Gosh I sound like an idiot don't I? You're just so reliant - there is no way on earth I want or am able to step in if we don't have these carers.

https://www.careflex.co.uk/posture-management/the-clinicians-pocket-book-of-seating/

this is a useful resource and will give you an idea of what clinicians consider. Lots of other companies apart from careflex to get quotes from but this book is a good resource.

I read an article recently that said some carers actually have criminal records and they manage to get jobs as carers because they are difficult to fill because the salaries are so low. Also it said most of them have not had even basic medical training.
Would you not tell the carer that she is over stepping the remit of her job -which she certainly seems to be doing? I think I would.
It seems she took it upon herself to get the chair bought at great expense - although they are endlessly advertised on SKY NEWS and seem really ugly..
Might your DM leave all/some inheritance to said carer (which may well happen and she is free to do)?
Can you ask for daily report of the carer's visits or better still get concealed video camera with sound if such a thing exists?

ABLE WORLD near us around a thousand pounds, that sounds like it should be gold plated,another vote for hope you have got power of attorney.my dad was fleeced by a private cleaner be careful.

My 2p. Spend the money as long as she’ll enjoy it.

when she gets in a care home it’s evaporate and council homes and private homes are really not noceably different when you stop caring about table cloths and being able to access the activities ( happened early with both my care home relies ). In some ways dads home ( was both council and private ) was better than current care home resident gets now in the way of care etc.

also don’t buy a leather / pleather riser recliner they all slide off them 🤣

Have you spoken to the care managers about the level of spending that the carer seems to be encouraging your DM to do ?

Also with the carers can you try being a little blunter ? I get you need them, but you absolutely should not be the one they're complaining to about their employers. Try being a little less available, redirecting the conversation back to your DM, and more non committal in your responses.

The way you describe her eating as changed drastically sounds to me like she has frontal lobe damage. Do you know what type of dementia she has? Has she been scanned recently. Also the change in her attitude to spending and spending on a massive level. Both of these changes are personality change and disinhibition with her giving in to her base desires.

Have you noticed any change in her mood? Does she have rages and outbursts?

I'd request a review from her psychiatrist on the basis of the recent behaviour changes. Huge weight gain in a short period isn't good, she'll end up diabetic and with all the related problems.

The excessive spending is symptomatic of her dementia and your concerns are valid and not from a worried about your inheritance angle. She is literally pissing money away and she needs to be safeguarded and protected from her excesses.

You sound a lovely lady in a challenging situation.

Aww thanks for saying that, I feel like a bitch most of the time - the grumpy daughter played by Olivia Coleman with a pinched face.

I don't know re. the personality changes. I don't know if it's a change in personality or if it's what was always lurking underneath the veneer of civility. It's what makes it so hard - my memories of her will be so overshadowed by my inability to distinguish between the disease and some pretty terrible behaviour. Like I don't know that I can forgive her lack of compassion towards my dad.