DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

If you have a decent relationship with the carer just have a chat with her in private.

You don’t have to go into detail, you can just say that you are concerned at the rate of spending, given that you care deeply for DM and sincerely hope that you will be funding many more years of assistance to help her stay happy and live independently and would prefer prior consultation on major purchases and a more moderate approach to general expenses (if you need an example you can say that she doesn’t need a cashmere jumper for each day of the week).

I suspect there is a bit of vicarious pleasure in spending happening here. Be assertive, they can’t put a “black mark” against you when you are electing to pay them. Unless there is some additional consequences/considerations that I am unaware of (quite possible!) then I think your worries in this regard are more about how you are percieved.

re: Chair, agree with others that they won’t retain their value and you’re best trying to find a second hand model and sell the idea of that to DM.

good luck, sounds a tough situation.

I am a community physio, riser recliner chairs have their place but consider

• can she use buttons
• is she able to get out of current chair, if she can then riser function will decrease her power / ability to transfer long term
• when rising it is possible to slip out
• measure her widest part (hips) when sitting this is the width and depth is seated hip to back of knee measurement and height is foot to back of knee - this will give you a well fitting chair

I would say 4.5 k is on the expensive side. You could visit a mobility shop to test one out to see if your mum can use it safely. Get another quote from another company.

NHS OT in our area would not get involved with riser recliner unless it was an issue of postural management, which it doesn’t sound it is. Other counties may be different. There are grants depending on area but most are income / savings awarded. OT / community physio should be able to sort rails / equipment (walking aids / toileting / showering etc…). referral is normally though Adult Social Care. But be prepared for a wait for this.

My Dad has dementia and on site carers in his retirement village that come in 3 x day.
They take him food shopping, but wouldn't be involved in his clothes purchasing.
I think I would ask the carer to not involve herself in financial decision making.
Do you have PoA and does she have capacity?

I would strongly recommend getting a quote from HSL for riser chairs. They are brilliant and no gard sell. But bevyhere for the visit

I think the carer influence is worrying!!

You can get tailor made recliners for a lot less. My husband has had a stroke and he got measured for one that cost £1,800. When the salesman came he thought it was marvellous but when it turned up he hated it! I had a legal battle to get the money back. So be careful, £4,500 is excessive - if she really want one she can get a very good new one for less than half that.

Worrying on so many levels, not just the money. Could you initiate a meeting with the agency to review the care and spending? And given you have PoA could you reclaim the debit card?

I am a live in carer, private at the moment, but have worked with agency’s in the past.
the amount your paying is way above the going rate. Depending on clients needs companionship with no PC rates are half of what you have said. Also, you could change to a weekly food allowance for carers food ( £50 ish) per week.
you need to look around and find a better more affordable rate.
the usual way would be to give the carer a float each week for shopping, they spend what is needed and present the receipt to you. At no time would I have access to clients bank card.

@Mac11 Get an LPA in place ASAP. OP has said, and it’s been referred to many times in the thread, that OP holds LPA

Use the Lady magazine, and get a private carer. You need a live in one. They then need two hours off a day (another carer probably if your mother will not be on her own). Your current carer is taking the Micky. My dad has dementia. I’ve been through all of this. In the end we settled on two carers on a two week rotation. Dementia is a bloody nightmare. But with the right people in place you can get back to getting the most out of your mother during these difficult times

You have had lots of great advice from OTs about the chair. I just wanted to reiterate what others have said regarding the carer. I would definitely be talking to her regarding how she’s encouraging the excessive spending and wouldn’t allow her access to mum’s card. If she carries on I’d change agency/carer. The spending sounds like it’s to do with your mum’s dementia (as it’s out of character) and the carer is facilitating this. Seems like a major red flag to me. If there isn’t a bottomless pit of money your mum is going to be in trouble when it runs out.

OK. So I have some experience of this scenario with very aged parents, (one recently passed aged 94). Firstly, I would be talking to the Agency the Carer is employed by as s/he should not be having this amount of say in your mum's finances and tbh, s/he sounds a bit dodgy. Sorry if that sounds as thought I am contributing out of turn. My mum's carer (s) would not presume to have an opinion on what she should or should not be spending her money on without consulting her family.
I bought three recliner/tippy up chairs and the first two cost around £500 and the other from Amazon at £279. All very comfy and work perfectly. 4.5k is a bloody rip off. My mum has dementia too and she has no idea about money and clearly couldn't care less, although did when she was well. Please contact the line manager of the Carer. It doesn't sound OK that s/he seemingly has so much influence. Clearly it is your mum's money for her to do as she pleases with it but I'd be concerned that she is very vulnerable.

Completely agree with everything this poster said. My mother had dementia at the end of her life. Her husband had Alzheimer’s. I had to quickly get attorneys to get them under care. Everything was a nightmare. We made their last days together as close as possible to what they wanted it to be. Her husband’s children made the nightmare so much worse.

I know it is hard having to parent your parents. Just know that you are doing the best you can for your DM and try not to beat yourself up too much.

As a professional carer, I've found that relatives will let you know in subtle and unsubtle ways what is reasonable for the client to spend. Some tips: 1) the carer can be cheeky and take DM out for expensive meals or spa days that include herself. This needs stopping immediately, or for special treats only, and I do think a word in the carer's ear in that DM could live for another 20 years would be sensible. 2) recliner chairs vary in price and a good one can be picked up for far less. Why is the carer allowed to encourage this profligacy, and so much freedom with the client's funds? I think a good carer will exercise 'due diligence' over spending what is not her money. She needs telling. Other people can take advantage too, be they salesmen like this chair one or even so-called friends, like the group who used to phone "to take darling John out for lunch". It was only when I withheld his debit card for the weekend shopping that I found out that he always paid! He never saw them again - and it was no loss to him, as he never really wanted to go, he later told me.
I would have a proper conversation with this 'carer' about not being able to fund her for much longer if this crazy spending goes on - swallow your pride! I wish she was my client, I'd use some psychology on her!!

She doesn't sound as if she's buying things just for kicks, I think she's being coercive controlled by the carer!

Agreed!

OP already has lasting power of attorney and is using it to sort things out. And an LPA is of no use once the donor passes away as the authority to act as attorney dies with the donor. Access to funding for things like funerals etc, is the job of the executor of the will, and if there is none, the solicitor handling probate will ensure payment of expenses.

We got a riser recliner for my father which cost
about £500 from a furniture store. it is perfect. We looked at DFS risers first, they were £1000 and above and you have to wait several weeks for them.

My husband and I have just put a death folder together for our three sons.
with POA pre paid funeral plans,all financial details NI numbers birth certificates. Anything they need in the event of our death.
We are newly retired but we want to know things are easy for them.
As a nurse I witnessed so many difficult situations causing distress following death.
I completed POA online at less than £100 each with easy to follow guidelines on how to complete.
Think about it! Then put in away and forget about it sorted!

When my mother had dementia, my brother stuck his nose in and got her an electric powered wheelchair. She had no physical disabilities, so she had no need for one. Then he bypassed her guardian and helped her contract to get a slanted walkway to the back to go in and out of the house. The front steps were too tall. It cost over £3000 for this walkway. They lived in a mobile home so the hallway between the front room and the bedroom wasn’t wide enough to get it to the walkway. When the contractor wanted to get paid, he was surprised that my mother couldn’t pay him. Of course her guardian said that the man should be paid and paid the outrageous bill. Seriously it wasn’t that long and should have been gold plated for that price. This was over a decade ago. The caretaker that lived there didn’t let the contractor know that she couldn’t contract either. It was a huge mess. I would definitely look for a new caregiver if this one is making decisions that aren’t in the best interests of your DM.

I agree with you; inherited money should not be wasted. I believe in charitable giving, children hospitals and animal rescue programs being my top two. I suggest putting mom on a budget so that she won’t spend frivolously. Why buy clothes that you will never wear or wear once? Save an animal instead! That’s just me.

I was asked out by someone who was a salesman for these chairs once, who was bragging how much money he made in commission. I thought it really distasteful but he had all the stock lines about it being their money they’d worked for and why leave it for children who had their own money. In fact, he was that motivated by money, he left his car at home on the drive and went everywhere in the liveried company van. He was horrible, but I could imagine his smarminesses with his customers ( victims)

I have a colleague that has a parent in this situation. They do a tesco order for their food. Carers come in through the day. They have had to stop their parent having access to cards etc as they were just spending on nonsense. They have a duty of care to manage their finances properly. They may need to use that money in the future for full time care. Don't think they will accept cashmere jumpers and silk scarves as payment. A wardrobe full of clothes etc that they don't wear is a waste.

Sorry haven't had a chance to read all the replies yet so sorry if this is now useless information! I've been through this exact situation with my parents. Mum got her Vampire Throne chair 4 years ago, before we knew she had Alzheimer's. Even then it was £3,500. 4 years on she has been diagnosed, and her mild Alzheimer's has rapidly progressed. Some days she can't remember what buttons to press on it to do what function. Poor 90yr old dad has to sit and remind her constantly what buttons do what function. And as many have said we got Dad a second hand one for £150. Literally no difference between the chairs. But Mum is rather salty about the fact that dads cost so much less. So if she does need one, yes get it second hand.

I think this is a serious concern if your DM has dementia and the carer is making these suggestions.
Do you have power of attorney over spending? May be time for change of carer or at the very least a conversation with her employer! Possibly a conversation with family over legal and estate matters.

"Have you got POA?" is a new "cancel the cheque".