DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

Agree, but at least it’s something I suppose.

OP’s mum is 82 so wouldn’t be eligible for PIP. She would claim attendance allowance - which it sounds as though she would be eligible for. I don’t think anyone here is being intentionally ableist - there’s just a general lack of understanding as to what certain benefits are for.

The problem with most disability benefits is that they are the gateway to other disability services so you end up with otherwise wealthy people having to claim them even though they don’t need the money. IMO that’s not an effective use of finite funding.

PIP was introduced in 2013 and the government was clear that it was with the sole intention of saving money by assessing disabled people of working age much more harshly - and unfairly - than the previous DLA assessment. We now have a situation whereby genuinely severely disabled people who rely on these benefits to make ends meet, are routinely denied them and are having to endure the stress of tribunal (at yet more cost to the taxpayer) to get what they’re entitled to. Something has to change and I’ll probably be flamed for it, but in my opinion PIP and other disability related benefit should be tapered off at some point for those who have significant wealth.

Do you have a local British Heart Foundation furniture shop? Our local one has one in the window for £300 at the moment!

Whether it is, or isn't, the carer should not be facilitating such expensive, and possibly inappropriate purchases without consulting family, nor should she providing a totally inappropriate diet.

It's about looking at the bigger picture.
The ops mum may want all the pretty things but she needs care.

Right now she has enough money but the more spent on wants, the less there is for needs.

Hundreds of scarves and jumpers and shit won't help when she's run out of money to pay for her care and social services have to step in and provide it because believe me they don't like spending!!

Her best interests are not served by unlimited frivolous spending. They are served by ensuring as far as possible that she has money in the bank to continue to provide top quality, round the clock care, with a reasonable amount of spending money on top.

Eventually she is likely to deteriorate to the point she needs to go into a specialised home.

There's a fucking huge difference between what ss will pay for and where you'd want her!

Expensive is relative

£4,500 for a chair which might not even be suitable sounds expensive to most of us.

But you do you.

The legal minimum wage is £11.44 per hour. That is what I was getting at. A good are company or private employer cannot pay less than that.

Lacking insight doesn’t automatically mean lacking capacity.

A bad decision is just as valid as a good one.

If you go out and have a drink then you may lose insight into your behaviour and decide that you actually fancy drinking a whole bottle of vodka. It’s a terrible choice to make, and possibly one you’d not make if you’d not had the initial drink. You didn’t lose capacity to make that choice though when you had your first drink. A bad choice is still a valid choice.

I have a resident with a fake leg. He insists on climbing stepladders in the garden. He had an accident in 1990 and suffered a significant brain injury as well as the leg amputation.

As of this date he has not been deemed to have lost capacity. The law protects that right. All I can do is say ‘John, I really think it’s potentially a bad idea for you to climb that stepladder’. That’s where safeguarding begins and ends.

You now get paid if you are sleeping at work. It is a legal requirement.

Your mother sounds entitled and self-infantilising - while your father was alive he probably absorbed a lot of this and it's quite possible it worked for them both psychologically, especially if they had quite traditional views on gender roles.

The dementia will be having a disinhibiting effect which will explain both the splurges and the 'greediness' after years of probably quite unhealthy self-denial, imposed because she found her own appetites and those of others morally disgusting in one way or another.

I would work on selling an 'upmarket, hotel-style' care home to your mother. I think she might genuinely take to the idea if you get the tone right, emphasising the 'fully staffed' and 'just like a nice hotel but with qualified staff on hand' and 'smart restaurant' stuff. I'm usually a big fan of honesty but in situations like this there is something to be said for encouraging a kind of gentle self-delusion to allow her to keep face - especially since she's clearly got those kind of reality-avoidant tendencies anyway.

It could be closer to you and will likely cost less than the carer.

Dementia is by it’s very nature infantilising. This is not something she is doing to herself it is the effect of damage to her brain.

My aunt, who had dementia, was very small all her life, yet had a good appetite for food. When her dementia progressed the part of her brain that regulates appetite and satiety was affected, as was impulse control. And she had no memory so she didn’t remember eating. As a result she piled on weight and her food intake had to be monitored so as not to add health issues around weight gain to her existing ones.

Upmarket care homes are basically like luxury hotels with care added, so that’s not actually untrue.

Yes, of course, but I got the impression from the OP's posts that the self-infantilisation was a pre-existing characteristic which has been exacerbated rather than initiated by the Alzheimer's, though perhaps I misread that.

My parents spent £3,000 each on riser recliner chairs and don't have them plugged in and just use them like normal chairs. Mum is 85 with Alzheimer's and step dad is 93.

Yes I would be concerned with the influence of the carer.
I agree with getting a physio assessment, having worked in care home management for a number of years I saw lots of inappropriate chairs bought and agree there can more danger of falling out if there are mobility issues.
Also why would your mum need so many jumpers.
It’s much easier to limit amount of clothes to allow her to make her own choice of clothing for as long as possible. If mobility and cooperation deteriorates due to dementia quite often front buttons and stretchy clothing are easier to manage. Reduces distress for the person and better management for the carer. Is this person experienced enough to recognise this, maybe you could discuss these issues with them.
I also have personal experience with looking after my mum who had dementia.
hope these points help.

These things aren't cheap, but that is ridiculous. Shop around. I think we spent about £950 on one a few years ago.

Sorry, meant to add to previous post - try calling around private care homes. Sometimes they get left behind by former residents and they may be keen to sell. Harsh but practical.

Years ago a similar thing happened with my gran and grandad, he'd had a knee op and she was early stages of dementia spending a bit like your DM currently. This company called them offering a chair loft into the bath type thing, the girl was apparently lovely and used their "first" names. She was apparently the daugher of the owner of this apparently lovely family run company! They basically wanted to charge 10k for knocking through their lounge wall to fit plates for this monstrosity lift thing. my gran was totally sucked in until my mum found out they'd already handed over 5k, mum called them up demanded a refund and told them to stop calling or there would be police involvement. They got the money back as it was something they absolutely didn't need and had been sold completely fraudulently and it just shows how they prey on unsuspecting older people. They reel them in with nice friendly conversations to get their money etc etc!! They'd also been sold an electric garage door with remote everything for a garage they never used to store a car and absolutely did not need!

As someone with mobility problems (72 and disabled) I bought one of these chairs from the same company for myself 4 years ago and I love it. It has a built in battery so you can't get stuck if the power goes down - or only if the cleaner accidentally unplugs it and forgets to plug it back in again as mine once did. I am not a standard size or shape and it was fitted to me perfectly. I bought a second cheaper one for the bedroom and never use it. Much inferior though not cheap at over £1,000. You can't just buy a second hand chair and expect it to be comfortable for her. Poor lady. I fully understand your concerns generally but in this case it is money well spent. Before anyone says it I haven't been paid to say this I just think a comfortable chair and bed are particularly important. Scarves and jumpers not so much!

Have you missed the many posts from people who say that the woman will lose core muscle strength if she has such a chair?

Or forget how to make it go down, and fall out of it?

Adult Sw W here. Your mum may be self funding but she is absolutely entitled to an assessment of need and advice around care planning.

I would get the OT involved before buying anything as I've known of a few nasty accidents where people have been tipped from riser recliners because they didn't have the cognition to use the control.

What type of dementia does your mum have? Disinhibition can often be a characteristic and that can involve excessive spending. It may be worth contacting local dementia services for advice too.

If the carer has your mum's bank card, that is a concern for all parties. Maybe consider using prepaid 'credit' style cards where set amounts can be loaded on.

Can you put a limit on the card that the carer uses?

Sounds like the carer has too much control. That's too expensive for the chair. You need to

1. Get rid of carer, the agency will be contracted to replace. I wouldn't trust someone who has that amount of influence over a patient who has memory problems. Who knows what else the carer is doing? Buying things on line and using a debit/credit card???
2. Get an LPA in place ASAP.

Living power of attorney. You may have difficulty with that already because your mum may not be deemed to have mental capacity, but lose not a moment. With the LPA, you'll have financial control. Your mum will be safe and so will her finances. Also, without that, if/when she passes away you will have no access to her funds to pay for anything like funerals etc.The banks will shut their doors and not even lawyers will have access.

1. Riser/recliner chairs are made to measure but it doesn't have to be THAT exact and there's a second hand market. Shop around. I wouldn't pay more than £250.

Dear dolly,
I agree with just about everyone that has replied.
DON'T buy mum a £4.5£ chair!
In the case of my mum, who was actually nothing like your mum, she lived in a supported housing set up where there were loads of wealthy (mainly) women who were visited twice a year by companies who, to my mind, exploited a group of bored wealthy women.
Anyone attending one of their presentations was given a 'free' gift - in my mum's case she chose a cheap cotton shopping bag. I think it is verging on the criminal, even if people had capacity.
We bought my mother a riser chair and she did use it for a while. But then she couldn't use it anymore and a charity came and collected it and I hope made a nice sum from it. Buy your mum one from eBay or charity.
Don't get guilt tripped by her carers or your mum. You're doing amazingly!