DM wants a riser-chair costing £4.5k! Advice v welcome

[Valleyofthedollymix]

DM is 82 with moderate dementia. It affects her mobility more than her cognitive abilities but I don't know how much this is to do with the dementia and how much is due to her lack of exercise over many years.

She is currently burning through finite funds by living in a large house with a very expensive live-in carer through an agency. After a lifetime of being careful with money, she's spending like Liberace and it's going to run out, especially since I think she'll live a long time. Frustratingly, the extravagance encouraged by the carer, for example endless new pairs of trousers and cashmere jumpers (one week she bought six). If we query this spending, it gets turned into a black mark against us - for someone with a failing memory, DM can keep a really good tally of the ways in which we've 'denied' her.

Anyway the latest was the carer organising for a bespoke riser recliner chair company to come round to demo. DM apparently 'fell in love' with the deluxe one and has chosen the fabric etc. It costs nearly £4600. This feels like an awful lot to me but apparently, it's tailor made for her spine, size etc.

Does anyone know if this is worth it? Of course, if it's a buy once buy the best situation and it'll change her life, fair enough, we'll find the funds. But I wouldn't spend that sort of money on anything without due diligence. I feel like we're being bounced into it. I'm also unsure of the wisdom of these chairs at all because might it exacerbate my mother's immobility?

So, if anyone has any knowledge on how much you need to spend and what's worth it, I'd be vvvv grateful.

You have to sack this carer ASAP. She is financially abusing your mother and all of you. All the items bought have to go into an registry and upon dismissal the carer has to be there and all items be present and accounted for.

Because providing a piece of equipment that is unnecessary can cause physical deterioration.
If her core muscles weaken further due to lack of use, then it won't be just the chair she struggles with, she will struggle with toileting and mobility. No doubt the disability equipment suppliers will upsell her a nice wheelchair then.

It is also doubtful whether her mother has the mental capacity to understand any of this, or indeed the implications of her spending.

Re. The chair: my late father had one. It was super expensive but really useful for him as he had a degenerative condition and needed to be helped out of chairs etc. My mother was strong but petite and the chair made it easier for her to help him. It also looked nice — she cared for him at home but loathed the idea of the house looking like a hospital.

Re. The money: the carer should not have access to your mother’s card. Just not. If she’s with an agency there is no way that they would allow it officially. She may be just following your mother’s wishes, but she is making herself and her employers vulnerable to accusations of fraud and theft. You need to cancel that card and rearrange your mother’s finances so that there is no access to large amounts of money. Day to day spending OK, so that she preserves a feeling of autonomy, but this is what POA is for.

This. I am astounded that the carer has DM's bank card! Have you checked to see if all the stuff being bought is actually at DM's house? That would be bad enough but.... Is all this stuff being bought online? Is DM ordering it or the carer? It can be returned within 2 weeks if you take control. Something is very off here.

It is a lot but she is getting one to one care (24/7?)

More like a friend/assistant?

My dad was in a lovely home but he couldn't just do what he wanted when he wanted as there wasn't the staff to be at his beck and call.

Fair point, but you have to weigh this up against the possibility of her falling if she struggles to get out of a chair. With dementia, at some point she’s going to be a serious fall risk. As others have suggested, she’d probably be better having an OT assessment before buying, to ensure the chair meets her needs.

If you read the OP’s updates, the carer doesn’t actually use the card for anything other than the weekly supermarket shop, which the OP checks. You can’t just sack someone for financial abuse without some proof it’s happening, and although I agree the carer seems to be encouraging expensive spending, there’s nothing in the OP’s posts to suggest she’s taking anything for herself. It’s a recipe for an unfair dismissal claim and possibly other legal action.

Spending on behalf of an elderly relative with dementia is supposed to be related to the type of priorities they would have had when compos mentis.
So, if they would have paid for a grandchild's school fees, it includes that, if it would have meant mending a jumper rather than buy a new one, then ditto.

My DAunt has Parkinson's related dementia and has always been frugal but I believe my DCousin has POA and has in any case been subtly trying to keep things newer and safe because her tendencies to scrimp and save have rocketed even while she has new needs. DCousin is trying to keep her spending as she would have done in the past (or a bit more generous, but not extravagant).

Because all of tis stuff piled up (as it eventually will, even in a large house) will encourage vermin?

And will have to be gone through and disposed of after her death?

And could be disguising inappropriate personal spending by a dishonest carer? (BTW - Not saying it is - just that it could.)

And because someone with dementia isn't the best person to be making the spending decisions?

OP isn't saying her DM shouldn't have a chair - just that it may nor be what she needs, and if she does need one this ay not be the right one for her as she hasn't been assessed.

Perhaps the carer encourages the wild shopping because it makes the DM easier to manage - if she goes nuts with her family, she might be a nightmare with staff if she doesn't get her own way.

It may be that the "tight' one was OP's DF and now he's gone her DM is making up for lost years, but at 82, if she is in good physical health the woman could easily have another 10, 15, even 20 years ahead of her. And the money won't last forever, even with substantial pension topping it up.

The motors for riser recliners are, unfortunately, expensive. We went to one of the showrooms of this company https://www.hslchairs.com/?&epssource=google&epsmedium=cpc&epscampaign=&epscontent=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0r2unsGHhAMVJJJQBh1NAw37EAAYASAAEgKcgvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds just for electric recliners and were pretty impressed by them, although in the end we bought elsewhere. A chair properly adjusted for her height and with arms to push up on may be adequate.

OP says the carer facilitates her mother’s purchases of other things as her mother can’t use her bank card, deal with the bank, use the Internet or her mobile. The carer “tends to run by us” the purchases. She will tell them she has bought some new trousers or the recliner.

That’s not ok.

Look for one that's second hand/reconditioned. Some places actually hire them out as well.

One point I would make about the recliner. While I’m not sure how long a dementia patient will be able to use the controls if ever, it does make it easier for the carer to help her out of the chair.

The recliner helps ejects the patient from the chair, and that postpones having to get a hoist. There are certain things that carers are not supposed to do as it can result in back injury and hauling people out of chairs is one of them.

........but at 82, if she is in good physical health the woman could easily have another 10, 15, even 20 years ahead of her

Probably not more than five to seven, actually.
She has a dementia diagnosis.

On a practical note, a fabric chair is a disaster from a hygiene perspective. If you look on line at pre-owned chairs, very often you will see a large stain in the centre of the seat. Incontinence, while not inevitable, becomes much more likely as a person ages. As someone with extensive experience in care homes-choose leather or another wipeable fabric. Also, I would not spend that amount of money without a proper seating assessment by a properly qualified OT.

These chairs are a bloody extortion racket for desperate, old, vulnerable people who have some cash - in some cases not much at all.

my fil’s riser recliner was obtained by an NHS person somehow. My step father couldn’t get his via the NHS (not sure why, he was in every bit as bad condition as fil) and he paid for a bespoke one, which had 2 motors as he was tall and built. Even that was less than your £4.5k. I think it was 3 thousand and soemthign last year. Still a massive cost, but your mother’s seems extreme.

I don’t think you are money grabbing at all. It’s really stressful dealing with elderly parents and it’s also terrible when they die (both I mentioned above are dead). Neither were “rich” but both had been so careful their whole lives. Afraid to have lights on for fear of the cost so say in the dark. That kind of thing. So you kind of know that spending huge amounts is not something they would do unless vulnerable, desperate, losing faculties etc.

really depressing

It's financial abuse and a safeguarding issue. It needs to be escalated to the agency. If you have PaA controls need to be introduced regarding spending. I second the second hand suggestion for a similar chair to see how she gets on with it.

is the carer the same size as your mother?

Also, I would not spend that amount of money without a proper seating assessment by a properly qualified OT

Absolutely not. The OT will also be able to provide all kinds of equipment for your mother, and a good deal of advice. And it's a good idea to get on their radar, because later on you'll need a hospital bed etc.

Depends at what stage the dementia was diagnosed. Depends on the type of dementia. Depends on physical health. Some dementia patients can last a long time if their physical health is reasonable.

Alzheimer’s patients can live on average 3-11 years after diagnosis. My aunt live for 15. My father was diagnosed 7 years ago, he’s still going and he has heart failure! He’s expected to live another 18 months and it may be more.

OP’s mother could well live for another 10 years. And at 100k a year that will cost a million just in care fees not taking inflation into account.

I agree with everything @Noped says. It’s so difficult to accept that the mother you used to know is no longer here with you. Dementia has changed her personality and the way she thinks forever. Unfortunately, she will only decline further and you need to accept this is only get worse.

Your Mum needs a different carer as this one is not suitable. No decent care assistant would let their client put on so much extra weight. It’s very bad that she’s been allowed to binge eat and go up four dress sizes! She doesn’t need a 4k chair or cashmere jumpers. She would benefit far more from wearing cheaper easy care clothing that can just be chucked into a washing machine and a sturdy winged arm chair that encourages her to stay mobile. It’s terrible that the carer invited a salesperson into your mother’s home when she is so vulnerable.

I would strongly ask you to consider whether your DM would be better off in a good nursing home. I would look for one with a specialist dementia unit available. My MIL lived in a dementia unit for 10 years and received really excellent care. She would not have had such a good quality of life or lived as long if she had remained at home.

It's not buy once. They break. Then she buys another. Bitter experience.

We got my late fil one free off Facebook marketplace and it was so heavy!
I would get the OT round to see what help your dm needs. They might suggest a comfortable armchair with risers added to the legs to make it higher. Both my dds have mobility issues and one of our sofas have them on to make it easier for them to sit down and stand up.
Would working out how much your dm had to spend a year if she, say, lived to 100? to give her a bit of an idea how much she can spend a year. I know she has dementia, but would it help with stopping all the black marks against you stopping her spending?
I think a chat with the carer is in need, especially with regards to her food shop and the amount of weight she is putting on. They sound like they have got very comfortable in their position, and obviously have a good relationship with your dm, but it sounds like they are forgetting they are working and are meant to be helping your dm with making her life easier.

What I mean is - he paid £1000 pounds that was a lot of money for him.
It was a lovely chair and suited his needs but I struggled to understand why it was so expensive - dad's chair was cheap compared to what OP mum has paid.
It is a lot of money for elderly to pay out - why are they so expensive ?

Well no, she asked the OP to buy the recliner. But my post was really making the point to the other poster that you can’t simply sack someone because you suspect financial abuse - which this clearly isn’t because the OP has oversight of all purchases and the carer is not taking anything for herself. But she clearly needs boundaries setting because she’s indulging DM in wasting money. With her DM’s LPA the OP has the authority to change the way DM’s money is accessed, and maybe impose a spending limit, because at the end of the day it’s she who is responsible for making sure that money is being spent wisely, not the carer.

It is not the carers job to withhold food from the OPs mum. She can discourage over eating, but she has no authority to say you can't have that food.