🪳 Cockroach Cafe 🪳 Autumn 2023

[MereDintofPandiculation]

I’ve just done the autumn deepclean, brought in a load of logs, and made sure we have plenty of rugs and throws, and toasting forks and marshmallows. I’ve even brought in extra rugs from the Good Daughters’ room under the stairs - they’re not needed there, no-one ever uses it.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or to ask a small question that doesn't warrant its own thread. Or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. So 🪳 mes amis/amies, and may you all live to fight another day.

Sorry your dad is in pain @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew but hopefully this will be the crisis that forces a change for the better all round.

Welcome @StrandedStarfish , sorry you have to be here. Have you read the Bill of Rights linked up thread? Short version: you don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Are you in the U.K.?

Hopefully @funnelfan. I had actually called in sick with flu this morning as I felt so awful so this really has not helped as I had to drop my plans of sleeping all day to deal with this shambles. Their career said she has been telling him to go to the doctor for weeks 🙄. Hopefully this might finally force him to listen to advice rather than thinking he knows best.
we waited over an hour for the ambulance for someone potentially having a heart attack. God knows what you have to do to get a cat 1 response. He has been in the waiting room in a&e since about 4pm, had some tests but they mucked them up so he has to have them done again.

Reading back I sound like a right heartless cow. I think these last years have robbed me of any ability to feel anything any more.

This is why we sit in the Bad Daughters' Room, Stiffy.

I think the feeling has been beaten out of me. In the past if I'd ever seen my mum like she is today even for a few hours, I'd have been distraught. But now it's normal. And it's awful, but I can't feel it.

And to watch your mum and dad stick in a situation that could be less terrible but they won't take even simple actions to change things, is so horrible. And you can't do anything. If you felt it every second you would keel over.

@StrandedStarfish I think I'd be doing very little for him to be honest. Especially given the history. But I think I must be a lot harder than many. Please prioritise yourself and your own family.

Thanks for the replies. I’m sorry I don’t know how to tag users.

Ive been looking for the bill of rights. Please would you post a link?

My family are in the UK. I have an older brother in Canada

I am stuck. My father was a reasonable man while I was growing up. He isn’t a strong man but very much ‘anything for an easy life’. He took the easy path with the stepmother and supported her family. Now my step siblings only turn up when the want money. I had to laugh at. The line ‘you used to pay all mums bills so she gave me money. I am down a hundread pounds a month since she died.’

My mother would expect me to take care of him, and I do feel that I have no option.

So sorry to hear of the continuing troubles

Permanent that numb thing is your mind's way of protecting you IMHO.

Update - following another emotionally hellish week, I exchanged on the old flat. The simple reality is I am not well enough to rent either out.

It's been a revolting year and to some extent I wish I had never moved...but on the plus side, this is a much, much better area so I will make the best of that.

Mum and sis are still quite alarmed by my state of health so....I plan to keep them in that loop frankly. Haven't told them I've exchanged.

I have no doubt mum will have another crisis so even if I start to feel better, which I think I will, I'm going to keep quiet. My sister is actually starting to do stuff to help, so while I wouldn't normally lie to her, on this occasion, it's just, whatever I have to do to help myself.

There is actually nice stuff out there in the world but it's so hard to remember that when you have oldies.

That's a big moment Emma. Congratulations for making a decision and moving forward. You're absolutely right about there being lots of good things in the world.

@StrandedStarfish to tag someone type “@“ and the name of the person you wish to tag. Or you can do a quoted reply by clicking on the three dots for each post. “Reply” doesn’t actually do anything useful.

The Bill of rights is just something I found while working my way through a self help book while waiting for nhs Talking Therapy. Not everyone here agrees with all points, but I found it helpful to be reminded that I matter too. It’s a tool meant to help you set boundaries. https://www.etsu.edu/students/counseling/documents/stressgps/personalbillofrights.pdf

You do of course have options. If you are in the U.K. then a starting point is to ask your dads local council for an adult social care assessment. Depending on the authority they may be a few weeks/months wait, but they can visit and advise what options are available in terms of support, reference to other organisations such as visiting services. The key to this is to have decided in advance what you can do and hold the line, because social services are of course stretched to the limit and if there is any hint that family can step in then they will allow this and you to stretch to breaking point and beyond. The other option is to step back and allow your dad to decline to the point there will be a crisis and things have to change and he accepts outside help. Both scenarios are playing out on this thread right now.

many other parts of mumsnet will elicit a response of “it’s faaamily” and guilt you into carrying on. But on this thread/board we realise that family relationships are complex, and also that getting old can be frightening and bring out aspects of your personality that your family haven’t seen before. And that’s before adding in family history, sibling relationships, illness and cognitive changes. Plus, and I can’t say this enough, you have a right to your own life and happiness, and your family to a happy relationship with wife and mum. Your dads lack of planning about what to do in this situation does not create the absolute obligation for you to fix it, no matter how old and vulnerable he is or other family members pressure you.

I am currently operating a “good enough” standard - is mum safe, clean, comfortable and fed/watered? If yes, then the minimum has been met. Everything else is a nice to do, not a must do. I still give up a day a weekend myself to do a 200 mile round trip, shopping paperwork etc, so I’m not a total cow, but the difference is that I’ve always had a good relationship with my mum and she is appreciative in her own way. However I won’t be able to carry on that much longer without damage to my health, marriage and job, so I’m kind of banking on enough of a decline I can get her in residential care. Which sounds awful but like other posters I have to not think about the emotional side. I’ve mentioned previously that I’m pre-grieving the woman she was not the shell she is now. Mum disappeared not long after Dad died and left behind a frail old lady that looks a bit like her.

Well dad is back, he got back around 2300. DH went to the hospital to sit with him, they had left him on a hard chair with no painkillers in the cold for hours. Hadn't given him even a cup of tea.
When the nurse asked if he had any support at home he said "no" ! ! DH said "It's a good job your daughter isn't here to hear you say that" and then told the nurse I go in every day. This morning he has already told me I was getting Mum out of bed wrong. Yesterday he admitted she needs to go in for respite for a couple of weeks, whether he will change his mind this morning is anyone's guess. She's going in regardless but it's just how much of a battle of wills he will make it.

I was thinking this morning about something silly that happened right at the beginning but it actually sums up the issues.
I was making pancakes for them. Dad said "it's not oil it should be with butter" and then argued and argued with me. For context Dad never cooked anything before mum had her stroke and had made pancakes a couple of times at this point. I worked as a pastry chef for 5 years and have been making pancakes for 25 years. He would not accept that there was any other way of making pancakes other than the recipe he had followed from Delia Smith. He can only see one way to do everything. And that way is the Right Way.

@funnelfan : "I am currently operating a “good enough” standard - is mum safe, clean, comfortable and fed/watered? If yes, then the minimum has been met. Everything else is a nice to do, not a must do."

I need to remember this. I forget it so often and make myself ill trying to make life as perfect as possible for her (not that she shows any appreciation).

@StrandedStarfish lots of useful support and advice here @funnelfan makes good points. Also I would contact help the aged who may have Information about charity befriending groups E.g. MiL had fortnightly visit from a volunteer who made a cup of tea and had a chat, Help the aged also had lists of cleaners and gardeners that worked mostly for elderly, it takes the pressure off you a little.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew i hope this is the wake up call🤞 and triggers some outside help. Re your flu, have you tested for Covid? Dh felt awful last week, bought some tests and he was positive so we knew to keep away from MiL and nursing home. He spoke to a business contact last week who had loads of staff feeling flu like and coughing etc at work, he made them all test and 50% had Covid. We test because dh work insist, and because of MIL and others at nursing home.

had chat with DM who blamed the phone as usual for poor hearing, makes any conversation exhausting as I have to shout and repeat myself. She told me her same story from 29 years ago about one of my cousins for the 50th time😮!!

nursing home politely say MiL has unpredictable moods …. They aren’t complaining, just being honest which I prefer.

Bit late now @StiffyByngsDogBartholomew but your DH should have kept quiet when your dad said no. OK to have a word with your dad out of hearing but family help runs the risk of being "baked in"

@countrygirl99 you are probably right 😂 I just imagine he was so outraged there was no way he was going to leave it !
dad doesn't accept any help even if he's offered it as "they don't do it right"

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew i think a previous poster mentioned about control and I think I agree - is your dad so stubborn about His Way because it’s the only control he has left over his life and he’s hanging on to it because he can’t face/cope with his and your mums declining health? It could also be masking some cognitive changes of his own.

No, in retrospect he's always been like this. I just didn't see it before. This has just made it a whole lot worse.
However he is definitely in denial about his health, even after he came home last night he just refused to acknowledge that lugging a 14 stone woman in and out of bed and onto the loo every day was not doing his health any good "oh no, I have no problems getting her out of bed" and saying it was no problem because "the hospital porters are fine moving people around". I did ask if the porters were 80 and he was forced to admit "no I suppose not"

I make him sound terrible but he is such a lovely man, so generous and all this stems from how much he worships my mum and that he cannot bear to have anything other than the best care for her - which obviously is him because he is the only one who is so dedicated to her. So he would rather be in pain than think mum wasn't getting absolutely the best care.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew sounds very much like my FIL who was always controlling. E.g. MIL never got to choose their holidays and if the subject came up it was always "don't you worry, I'll sort something". He hated employing any tradesmen as they never did it how he wanted etc. DH and I had a mahoosive row not long after we got married. We were putting in central heating and FIL had come over one Saturday afternoon to help. I went out to the laundrette and when I came back they had put our bedroom radiator exactly where the wardrobe was which meant the wardrobe was now partly covering a window. We had agreed where to put it but FIL had decided this was a better place and DH didn't dare argue. The following weekend, when he wasn't there, we moved it to the right place.

Stiffy's last paragraph is FIL to a tee as well.

@StrandedStarfish My mother would expect me to take care of him, and I do feel that I have no option. I would interpret that as “my mother would expect me to make sure he was cared for” and outsource all you can. The less time you spend doing chores for him, the more time you can spend re-kindling your relationship

When the nurse asked if he had any support at home he said "no" ! ! DH said "It's a good job your daughter isn't here to hear you say that" and then told the nurse I go in every day. Goodness me! With husbands like that, who needs enemies

@EmmaEmerald Job done. Game on.
You've found your way forward, and, while it won't necessarily be perfect everyday, you'll soon only have half the property baggage that was weighing you down.

Oh believe me dad wouldn't have been saying it to try and get support. He has already cancelled half of the career visits he's entitled to and won't take any assistance he has been offered. He already feels he has caused enough of a nuisance. When I said that the carers need to get mum up not him he said "but they need a double up and they don't have the staff". He can't see that their lack of staff is not his problem and if an 80year old man can get her out of bed alone, so can a 25 year old ! The carers have confirmed they only need 1 person anyway.

we have had a good morning though, nursing home near us has space for respite care, is well reviewed and we are going to view it in the morning. It's just 5 minutes up the road and dad is actually quite positive about it

It’s hard. I had a bit of a moment last weekend because I traced the source of a funky smell in the kitchen to the microwave, where the carers haven’t been wiping up food spatters over a period of time. Mum likes eating fish in sauce so you can imagine.

it’s the relatively little things like that that bring me down and think that no one else can care for mum like me or DB. But it doesn’t mean that at all, it just means that the carers needed a rocket up their arses a gentle reminder to do the basics of what they’re there for.

I had a moment yesterday because it’s the younger members of the family that are causing me worries - long term health issues for my DD and job worries for my DS. Both are having a tough time and I’m worried sick about them.

DM went on and on about a car that is parked outside her house. Why is it there? Who does it belong to? How long will it be there? What if someone needs to park there to take her out? I. Don’t. Care.

She has form for this. When DD was hospitalised with Covid in the first few months of the pandemic she went on and on about someone stealing the plastics recycling bag from outside her house. Who would do that to her? I’m afraid I lost it.

I’m also maintaining the minimum standards at the moment - she doesn’t get out unless I take her and I know that’s not great for her mental health but it’s not great for mine either. Of course I feel guilty.

@BestIsWest my DM doesn't go out either unless I take her, a tbh it's a physical struggle for me to do that. It means pushing her in a wheelchair, and although she's not a large person it is still hard work. I have 2 hernias along a major scar from abdominal surgery and I am being assessed next week to see if more surgery plus hernia repair is necessary. I shouldn't be lifting/pushing etc but if I don't do it no one else will.

DM lives with my sister who has adult children also living at home, and it just makes me especially annoyed because none of them has ever taken my mum for even 10 minutes round the park which is right across the road from their house. It's strange, isn't it, how some people can feel the burden of guilt while others carry on feeling nothing.