Cockroach Cafe 🪳Autumn 2022 🪳

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome! I’ve taken advantage of the relative quietness recently to have a good “spring” clean. And also install solar panels and get in a good supply of logs for the stove.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or to ask a small question that doesn't warrant its own thread. Or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. So 🪳 mes amis/amies, and may you all live to fight another day.

"Dealing with elderlies when you’re 70 yourself is a strain - just not the energy of your 50s"

I had my mum lecture me the other day that my grandma had bathed her MIL everyday without complaining. This was because I moaned about her wanting a bath at 11pm in the evening. I thought (but didn't say) well DGM was doing that when she was about half my age & it wasn't at 11pm at nigt and as you were about 8 you probably werent aware of how much DGP cried with frustration/exhaustion/ moaned to DGF.

Was also somewhat peed off because I gave her a shower on Sat eve & just got constant complaints. My niece assisted with a bath yesterday & she gave DNiece £50. That makes me feel mean, but somehow my brain has used this to mean what I do is less appreciated/less well thought of etc.

Morning all. Having been a frequent flier on previous threads, I dropped off somewhat.

DM passed away recently after a relatively short stay (10 months) in a care home following her second stroke at Christmas. We are just dealing with the funeral arrangements etc now. The saving grace being that having sold her house earlier in the year, at least I don't have to deal with all of that on top of everything else.

It's fair to say that her passing really was a blessing - that sounds like an overused cliche, I know - as she was so unhappy with the lasting effects of that stroke on her abilities to function (paralysis on one side, issues with swallowing, etc). I do believe that in her case the medical interventions meant she was kept alive beyond any real quality of life for her.

I have little in the way of sage advise to pass on to those following in my footsteps, other than for goodness sake, do not run yourselves ragged being a martyr. I really do think that being her 'daughter round the corner' has left me profoundly exhausted.

@notaflyingmonkey It's lovely to see you again. I hope the funeral goes smoothly, when my uncle died at ninetymumble it was a bit flat because there was no-one from his generation to speak of him as a young man. When my other uncle died I had all the stories from his youth that I'd had from my mother that I could share with his adult children.

I have the estate agent coming today, it's my childhood home but I'll be glad to see the back of it. Too far away, too much garden, too much stuff, far, far too much fencing.

@notaflyingmonkey sorry to hear about your mum. Even when it's anticipated and is a blessed relief it's still a wrench. Hope the arrangements go as well as these things can.

Just a quick update. Social Services emailed me on Weds night to say there is enough info to prompt a Section 42 Safeguarding Investigation. Had the agency around yesterday who were then going straight to mums, and later on a call from the police. Not sure how involved they will be getting at this stage so won't say anymore about the details of the 'case' as a precaution.

In the meantime I haven't heard from mum since she collected her key on Wednesday afternoon and I haven't tried to contact her. I may send a short message today and see what, if any, reaction I get.

I feel like I should be distraught at the situation (ie the schism between me and mum) but this has been such a long time coming all I feel is relief that its no longer hanging over my head, and guilt that I didn't do it sooner.

@notaflyingmonkey Sorry to hear that your mum has passed. Its very sad but also, sometimes, these things are a blessing/ relief. I look at my mum sometimes & think about how awful, sad, frightening it must be to know that you are declining a little bit each day no matter how hard you try not to. No wonder Roger Daltry sang about dying before he got old. We all seem to be living longer but to what end?

Currently sat on plane ready to head off for our much planned longed for holiday with the DC. DH is staying at home to deal with the crisis of FIL. Turns out he does not have cancer but saw a cancer specialist at his appointment yesterday, I guess everyone was convinced. He does have another condition and will need help/care/medical assistance (insert whatever term he finds acceptable here) at home. So doc has ball rolling for that and he needs to see correct specialist next week. So frustrating a correct diagnosis a week or so ago and we might have all managed away. But we will make the best of it and have already promised to do it all again just as soon as we can. My dad is teed up with lots of cousins, friends, neighbours to keep an eye and take him to appointments. and despite the cancer he looks better than he has in a long time so I am going with a clear conscience and zero fucks for anyone that thinks I'm terrible. My DC have earned this because however bad things are they're probably going to get worse in the foreseeable future. Thank you fellow cockroaches. I shall raise a glass to you all as soon as the trolley comes round.

Oh @MissMarplesNiece that is exactly the sort of thing I would get from my mother about her sister and her sister in law. The difference is that her sister only cared for her mother/mother in law in their last weeks and was 10/20 years younger than me at the time. My aunt who cared for my grandmother on my dad's side always maintained she did very little in the way of care - just shared a house.

Minty - don't beat yourself up. I think you are being so gracious to your mum.

@Knotaknitter Sorry for your loss. But I understand exactly what you mean by a blessing.

@chesterelly1 have a wonderful holiday. Such a shame DH couldn't join you.

Hello nota, nice to see you again!

@notaflyingmonkey so lovely to see you here, and I know what you mean, but I am sorry for all you have had to go through.
hope you are able to take time for you now.
@chesterelly1 sorry your dh isn’t with you- but enjoy your holiday.
@Knotaknitter hope agent was useful.
@MintyCedricHereWeGoAgain well done.
and cockroach mes amis

So yesterday was a bit of a day..... The live in carer had to get another carer in to help her get Dad up. He's lost all strength, just kind of sits slumped in a chair.

The GP came out (I can't fault them they've been brilliant) and felt there was nothing more she could do for Dad at home, so he got taken into hospital last night. I couldn't go as I had a debilitating migraine, I couldn't drive or tolerate lights. Now I'm worried and guilty as he'll be so confused. He's not answering his mobile, which is not unusual.

Just going to phone the hospital now.

I need advice and maybe a bit of support.

DM is riddled with arthritis, cannot support her own weight to stand or walk, cannot lift her arms above shoulder height. She needs help with all personal and household care. She has fallen twice in the past year, broken bones each time and has ended up in a CH to rehabilitate. She maintains it is temporary until she is "back on her feet" and is adamant she wants to go home.

OT has worked with her to improve mobility and adapt her home. But she is not doing the exercises as it is very tiring and painful.

We are struggling to find carers who will do the hours she needs, 4 visits a day. But morning call is too late 9 or 10am and bedtime is too early (latest 9pm) and nobody will do a night visit, unless we pay for a waking night. (She needs to urinate at night) She had carers after the first fall and cancelled them after a week cos they were too intrusive and left her soaked in bed for over 12 hours.

OT and social worker believe she should / can go home, but I feel it would be a mistake. We have persuaded her to stay in CH over the winter because of the cost of living and winter pressure on the NHS should she fall again. (She spent 6 hours on the floor waiting for an ambulance with a broken femur). The cost of carers and waking night works out approx the same as staying in CH, plus she would have food and heating bills at home.

I want her to stay in CH where she is safe and well cared for. I just can't see how she will manage at home with carers. We looked into live in carers but she didn't like that idea either.

DH thinks I should have a frank discussion with her and explain that it is not safe for her to be at home alone and she needs to be in a CH. She has full capacity so how can we force her to do anything. Surely she has the right to live wherever she wants, but it will come at a cost to me and her.

I feel so guilty telling her she should stay in CH but I don't know what other options we have. She has said she would like to move in with us, but we would have to re-model downstairs to make a bedroom and bathroom for her, I would have to give up my job, and I am worried the effect it would have on me the kids (18 & 15) and my partner. I love her dearly but how much should I give to make her happy.

@devicelab Sometimes the least worst option is the best one. Absolutely from your standpoint that’s the CH. From her standpoint that’s being part of your household. Does she have funds to afford activity beyond the care home? For example, If finances allowed, could you take her out of the care home to an Airbnb or hotel with you and stay with her for a weekend once a month. Compromise all round , also a bit on the pricey side and assumes you are able and willing to get her up in the night. I would imagine after one or two weekends this arrangement would be untenable and she would be in the ch permanently. But it buys you time…

@notaflyingmonkey so sorry to hear your news. Relief and profound sadness all at once.
@Knotaknitter sometimes knowing the time is right to move just becomes more obvious although obviously the politics of the last three weeks does get in the way

@Mum5net Is anyone paying attention to the broken bones? Ie is there osteoporosis and is it being treated?

You need to be brutally honest with her about what you’re prepared to do. She may well be better at home, but it will be with the restrictions of the care service (up late morning, bed at tea time). But as long as she thinks her options include you being on hand 24hrs a day, she doesn’t have the correct information to make a decision

Oh @devicelab what a situation.

I can say immediately that your mum moving into your home sounds like a nonstarter. Think of your own retirement- giving up your job will seriously affect your own pension. Not to mention massively affecting your life, your children, your marriage.

Fundamentally your mum needs 24 hour care. That's very clear. The setting comes after acknowledging that need. She lay in her own urine for 12 hours because she is totally unable to care for herself.

I think the options are privately funded 24 hour care at home if she can afford that, possibly topped up with council care visits if she needs double handed care, or carrying on at the care home. That's probably it.

Turning your family home into a 24 hour care centre is not an option.

@devicelab It is not your job to make her happy, we are all responsible for our own emotions. "It's not my job to make her happy" - if you can put that on repeat you can skip everything that follows.

Yes, your mum can make her own decisions but that doesn't mean that you have to make them happen. She doesn't get to decide that she's moving in with you, hang onto that job because who knows what is in front of you this winter? Yes you'll feel guilty but at the moment your home is your safe space where you can shut the door and leave your caring responsibilities at the doorstep.

She doesn't want a live in carer, she's not willing to compromise on wake up and bedtime hours (and to be fair, I wouldn't either) - what's her solution to long term support once she's home? Moving in with you is not an option, having you there 24/7, not an option. Magical thinking where she's suddenly thirty again is also not an option. Part of being an adult is recognising that we can't always have what we want. You can't find carers for the hours she wants them, accept that they aren't there right now and stop trying. If she wants that service she can phone round and sort it herself or recognise that it won't be happening.

What do social services think she can go home with?

Think of it in terms of small children wanting a pony or wanting to play on the railway line. Yes, it might make them happy to say yes and facilitate it but it's still not a good idea. Your mum can have whatever she wants if she can pay for it and arrange it herself, that's the joy of adulthood. She can arrange a taxi and take herself home tomorrow but everything that would follow from that is her responsibility too. If she wants the risk of spending the night on the floor that's her choice. If she is happy with a hospital admission twice a month because of falls, that's her choice too. Even if she's not choosing the sensible option it's still her choice to make but it doesn't mean that you have to be there making the impossible work for her.

We had two years of discharge-fall-admission-discharge because MIL was determined to go home. It was her choice to make although the family knew that we'd be round the cycle again in a month. She didn't want to move, she didn't want a stairlift, she didn't want to use a commode and I was not magically able to generate a portal to the toilet upstairs. Nothing changed so it was inevitable that there would be another fall.

I went to see MIL this week. The move to a care home has done wonders for her, she's eating properly, they are managing her diabetes, she's taking all her medication as prescribed and she's not sitting in front of the tv for 14 hours a day. She's chatty because she has so much to talk about. She looks so well and she's as happy as I've ever seen her. I don't know whether that's down to the dementia or the surroundings but she's a pleasure to be with now (and I can't believe that I'm saying that)

@devicelab the starting point is the discharge - what do they want to discharge her with? Is she self funding? Be very clear that you haven't been able to find the care hours.
Then, be clear about what you can do. Sounds like mum still has capacity. Ask the social worker and OT to call a discharge meeting, which she should be involved in.
My MIL had to realise that after multiple falls and broken bones the options were move into a home whilst she was still able to have an opinion of where, or the stark reality of ending up dead.
She's now in a residential home with a nursing home attached, loves it and is very well looked after.
Ultimately it's her decision, please do not change your whole life around to accommodate her needs.
Recently my mum has shown signs of dementia, she has become vicious and is extremely clear what she does and doesn't want. So, we have all stepped away and only do the absolute essentials.
It's very difficult because often emotions are running high, but if things aren't possible, then they just aren't possible and no amount of emotional thinking will change that

My reading of @devicelab situation is that DM has the OT and SW acquiescing with her about returning home. OP has not got them in her corner.
Sadly, we all know another fall is inevitable and that the care home is absolutely the only solution.
However, as DM with capacity has ‘form’ for dismissing the care in place, it is still a possibility DM will demand to go home.
I think DM needs extra incentives to stay in the care home. “Stay these next four weeks, see how you get on and I’ve booked us an overnight at XX where we can have some fun. Then we can take it from there…”
Stalling tactics really… but on @devicelab ’s terms

@Mum5net you have hit the nail on the head. I am annoyed that OT & SW are indulging her fantasy of going home even though it's not in her best interests. It's making me think that I am being selfish for wanting her to stay in CH because it suits me. I don't understand why they refuse to see the risk and consequences, her choice and capacity seems paramount.

We have lunches out together every week for an escape and she comes to my house for visits. But she is an hour away and going back and forth takes all day. I tried taking her to her own home to have a meal and just hang out there together, but she didn't seem to enjoy it and hasn't wanted to repeat the visit. An overnight stay elsewhere would be out of the question, her mobility is so poor, she is very self-conscious, would consider it a waste of money and I wouldn't be able to manage her overnight.

@Knotaknitter your point about responsibility is very useful. I sometimes think DM wants me to make the decision for her, (she's from a generation where DF made all the life decisions) but I don't want be the bad guy who takes away her independence. She needs to understand the potential consequences of going home.

@MereDintofPandiculation she does have osteoporosis and takes tablets for it.

Thank you everyone it helps to know I am not being unreasonable, I sometimes feel a bit judged by friends who have no idea what it's like to be in this situation. I am going to pull on my big girl pants and spell it out for her.

I can't help feeling referring to being at home as 'not safe' isn't necessarily the way forward. The truth is that if she goes home, she's going to spend far more time in hospital because her falls will accelerate and her health problems will be far more difficult to manage at home.

Mum isn't talking to me. DB moved a long way away (several hours) last week. He has POA and earlier this year he removed important paperwork from Mum as she was shredding stuff that was important - unpaid bills, policy documents etc. She didn't like it, she is convinced the is perfectly capable of looking after the admin, but she isn't. E.g. a few weeks ago she was in a right state because British Gas had taken 2 direct debits that month and she was convinced they had got confused and were taking DBs payments as they were same surname, same town.the 2nd Dd was her service agreement payment but I couldn't get her to see that and ended up having to distract her with cake. She can't even remember that DB has already moved and thinks he moves next week. She wanted to make DB return the paperwork and I wouldn't. I am apparently a horrible person. There is no right thing to say.

@countrygirl99

Leave your mum to contact you . I'm sure she will when she realises she actually needs you .

Went to visit df today, he’s in a care home with dementia. He’s simply wasting away. And I know that he might well continue to waste away for many many months or even years more. I’m just so sad, and angry. We don’t treat animals this badly. And maybe I should have done more to keep him at home so the decline wasn’t this fast. Nobody deserves to live like this.

@ChiefFinderOuter

We had my dad at home in a similar state for 15 months (we went into a home for theatre 6 weeks or so).

It was utterly soul destroying to watch him like that for so long, and became incredibly difficult to manage his needs. We couldn't get any hospice support hence the home at the end as there was the constant fear that he'd take a turn for the worse and we wouldn't be able to get the Echo Team out fast enough to minimise any distress.

With the best will in the world he is probably in the best place for both of you, but I know how hard it is 💐