Cockroach Cafe - newly refurbished for the summer

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome into our newly refurbished cafe. We've got rid of the Bad Daughters' bench - it was getting too small - and refitted the main room as a Bad Daughters' room, with comfy sofas, coffee, chocolates and drinks of your choice. (There is a good daughters' room - go down that corridor there and you'll find it tucked behind the stairs. It's not yet been fully furnished - we haven't had a visit from a Good Daughter in I don't know how long).

Anyway, come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or to ask a small question that doesn't warrant its own thread. Or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. So cockroach mes amis/amies, and may you all live to fight another day.

@BurningTheToast 3-4 months to set up a care package? That is unbelievable! My DM's was set up within a week last year. I appreciate there are staffing issues but that is unacceptable. I am wondering if you have given SS the impression that you will be stepping up to do a lot of the care and they are therefore not in a hurry as such? If MIL had no one then they would have to get the care sorted quicker. I can understand a couple of weeks to get it in place but months? No way.

Also, 4 x 15 mins is nothing, they will be in and out of the door with no time to do anything except medication. Push for longer visits, my DM has 4 x 1 hour provided by SS. She had 6 weeks respite care after hospital and came home, sometimes it does them good to be looked after, fed well and it gives them a chance to get their strength back a little. Don't dismiss this option.

@OnthePiste - my DM said the same thing when I spoke to her last night - that if SS think that DH and I will provide the care then they're not going to be in a hurry to do anything. If we weren't able to do what we're doing, she'd have to be admitted to a care home or hospital as she can't get herself to the loo without a significant risk of falling or even make a cup of tea.

The plan today is to pin down at OT at the hospital about FIL's likely length of stay, prognosis re mobility etc when he does get home and ensure that he gets a needs assessment soon from the hospital social work team. And I'm going to call some private agencies to see if they can find me someone. Then when we have some likely timescales I'm going to have another talk to DH re respite care for the short term while we get all of that in place.

Have a good day everyone and thanks again for your support and advice. It's appreciated more than you can know

*BurningTheToast" I think the OT (or multi disciplinary discharge team) steps in once once the patient is medically fit for discharge, that's the phrase to be listening for. Is there a chance that he will be discharged to a rehab place rather than to home? It's something to ask about because of the impact on MIL.

My mother was dischanged from hospital (England) in April, the day she came out they fitted a key safe and the carers started seamlessly that evening. The fall alarm went in a couple of days later and she was on the district nurse's rounds. She was home alone, there was no alternative. I was answering the phone almost continually but it was all put in place as part of the hospital discharge. If I'd have been willing and able to move in with her then none of that would have happened because there would have been no need. If the family are providing care then the person's care needs are being met and there is no need for social services to do it.

Hopefully there is more chance of a fast assessment through the hospital discharge team because they have the incentive of freeing up the hospital bed, they need to be told loud and clear that FIL is the sole carer for MIL. It's not an uncommon situation, they see it every day.

Looking back, the thing that saved the day for us was a respite vacancy in the home near me. Mum went in for a week when she came out of hospital and after she'd gone back home and everything went downhill they still had the bed. She was happy to pack her bag and go back there long term seeing as she'd already seen it. In a respite place in addition to you knowing she's safe, MIL would also have people round her rather than being alone in the times when the carers aren't there. What we want for our loved ones is for them to be happy and safe whilst respecting their wishes.

Does MIL get attendance allowance? I'm assuming she does but if not it is worth claiming. It's not means tested and if you are a full fee payer you keep it even if you move to residential care (I know you've a lot on and I don't want to add to your to do list but it needs saying)

@BurningTheToast you are in such a difficult situation. Lots of wisdom on here. I could not contemplate what you are planning.
Is live in care an option? 🌺🌺🌺
cockroach all.

Nor me sandwich .

Reading these posts has made me reflect. First with my late Dad, and now my mother ( she is much younger), I've been dealing single handedly with this for 20 odd years now.

So my cockroachy observations learned the hard way:

Apply for attendance allowance and for all that is holy get a PoA in place. And get photographic ID.

Blue badge makes hospital appointments easier.

I never , ever considered having her live with me. It would wreck my life.

If you signal you are available to care, even partially, the services absolutely will step back. I grey rocked it. No. This is an unsafe discharge.I cannot look after her. I do not live locally. I have a busy professional job in another city. No. It's none of your business whether I have dependent family or not. ( yes they tried to guilt me as well) Repeat over and over.

Do not get into a situation where you are at their beck and call. Pay someone else for this purpose if the person can afford it. Prepare for emotional battles over this person, but don't do it yourself.

Set boundaries. Hah.

It's a hellish time, and it can go on for far longer than you think remotely possible so protect yourself with that Teflon. Seek out others in same boat but avoid the saintly martyr types.

Pick your battles. I vividly recall one dreadful winter driving in the dark for miles and miles after work over to the hospital in an attempt to get to the bottom of my mother's diagnosis, as no one would discuss her over the phone, despite PoA. The roads were treacherous and icy ( this is hill country) , I was ill myself, and my beloved dog was dying. I should just have let it be. Nothing much was gained apart from more stress for me. I don't think I would do that now.

Dealing with financial institutions can also be hugely stressful, especially if the person's affairs are in any way complicated. I was dealing with nine at one point, all with different procedures regarding PoA, ID etc. That nearly broke me, but I came through it. See photographic ID, above.

My mother still has the power to badly unbalance and upset me, but this happens less than before. These days I get to choose how often I see her, and the home do everything else so that just leaves financial management, so it's much better than it was.

My most pressing issue is how on earth to engage with her, but that has always been an issue, except now she forgets what I said last time anyway.

I'm just prepared now for it to go on for a long time.

Cockroach all.

Good advice @Words!

Mum gets AA
She's had a blue badge for 3 years and it's been an amazing help for hospital visits etc
She's now in a ground floor flat in a sheltered complex which means no stairs, and it's really cheap as the heating is included in the rent
She's decided today to get Wiltshire Farm foods to deliver a hot meal and pudding each day which will mean she might put some weight on
I'm POA for health and finances
She has a Will

Not sure there's much more you can do preparedness wise.

We are all doing our best - and some of you are going above and beyond - so cockroach all x

Thanks @Words.

I've already found that OTs and SWs are assuming that we will be able to carry on as we are and it's not possible.

Today we're taking MIL for a look round the care home that's very near to their house with a view to a stay for respite care until FIL is home. I have made clear to the hospital OT that he cannot be discharged without a care package as we cannot provide the care they both need. I can see that as you said I'm going to have to be a broken record about that.

Visited FIL yesterday and he moaned at me for about a while about the lack of physiotherapy he's getting, the cleaners waking him up with their floor polisher, the accent of the woman who came to talk to him about whether he could make a cup of tea (???) and the fact that other people in his 4 bed room have the absolute nerve to have conversations with their visitors.

Then the surgeon came to see him and told him he was doing well etc and so FIL asked when he could go home. Surgeon said that wasn't down to him - medically he could go home tomorrow but what matters was his mobility in terms of discharge. Stupid, stupid man! So now FIL thinks that he could go home immediately if it wasn't for the fact that the physios are ignoring him.

So, as it wasn't going to get better, I raised the subject of carers coming in and that went down like the proverbial - they won't do things how he likes them, they'll steal things, they'll be unreliable etc, etc.

I stood firm on that and then told him that we were considering moving MIL to respite care until he was home and we'd got a care plan in place for him. He took that rather better although obviously he tells me they'll put her in a room and ignore her.

All of this while reiterating that they're fine, we mustn't fuss, they can manage, we mustn't put our lives to one side because of them etc.

I managed to leave without strangling him but this is why they're not living with us ever. Fifteen you say, @MintyCedric, with good behaviour? Hmm...

I raised the subject of carers coming in and that went down like the proverbial

I think you and your DH absolutely have to get over to them the realisation that this is non-negotiable - because it is. That you will not and cannot provide all the care they need and the pressure on you will be too much. There's no point anyone arguing about it because it's going to happen.

In fact, I would start putting the whole process in motion, the care providers are used to this resistance and will help you persuade them.

I'm considering whether there might be quite a few of us doing our 15 years at the same time. Perhaps the Bad Daughters Prison Wing.

We have thankfully managed to get MIL back on the anti-psychotics, so we are back on manageable terms again.

However, she is due to have her heart op next week, so we have absolutely no idea what that will bring! TBH we are sort of hoping she doesn't make it through the op. She has a miserable life (mostly down to her own miserable personality) poor health and limited mobility and now the Alzheimer's (still not officially diagnosed, but with obvious symptoms) on top of that. Sadly, I think this is too much to hope for.

I'm dreading the aftermath 😱

GOD burning the medics and surgeons can be infuriating when they do that. I
They think they're being clear but they are hugely undermining the team approach.

The cup of tea lady will have been the OT. Maybe call her. Give her the message you want him to hear from the team - you need carers, you'll do fine with them, lucky to be in your own home etc etc.

Mum had the cup of tea test back after she had knee surgery, the assumption was that someone else would be getting her meals for her. At that time she was still fully independant, driving, baking her own bread, doing her own garden and doing all the other stuff that adults do. She was a fully active 86 and was affronted that all they thought she should be capable of was making a cup of tea. There were a few people who had their casual ageism dragged out for inspection and challenge and quite rightly so.

Burningthetoast it doesn't help if FIL is telling them that his wonderful family will do everything for him. MIL was discharged with no care package on several occasions because she airly said that her daughter in law was local, didn't work and would do everything for her. Said DIL was never asked about this and was rather resentful as she was holding up her own mother at the time.

Just went absolutely ballistic at the poor social worker who strongly implied that since it was too expensive for them to provide 1:1 supervision at the nursing home, I should 'do more' - like what? Apparently like spend more of the weekend there? Not sure what's supposed to happen at night or in the week- do I then move in to the nursing home? What happens to my son and my job and my house, not to mention my life, at this point?

The ward have simply lied about what she was doing, presumably to get her out. Secretly I'm grateful, as the manager of the home is nails. I do feel sorry for the social worker who is stuck between two furious women. Sorry, Alison, if you're on here, but I do wonder what you think should happen to my darling ds while I become an unpaid carer to an 87 year old who is smearing her shit up the wall.

Visit to the care home was interesting. Really nice people, excellent inspection report, nice feel, if a tad boutique. For a long term option I think somewhere a bit cosier would be good. But we're talking respite - couple of weeks or so - and cosy can wait. And there is space, admission on Tuesday assuming PCR test is clear.

However, when we got home and discussed, she doesn't want to go. Didn't like it, wants to stay at home. No discussion.

headesk

Oh wow @BurningTheToast and @PermanentTemporary - you really are both in the midst of the storm, aren’t you? I was there 2 years ago. I vividly remember being on a best interests call and saying “let me be absolutely clear, I am NOT in a position to come and fix this if the return home fails” (mind you, I was “lucky” in that I’d just been treated for cancer, and had no issue in using that card!)

I should add that my grandma came to live with my family when I was about 12. I absolutely hated it, and promised myself I’d never do that to my children. It’s not just about what the elderly parent wants. Who said up thread about it being like children wanting a pony? - very wise and helpful, thank you

@PermanentTemporary

I'm considering whether there might be quite a few of us doing our 15 years at the same time. Perhaps the Bad Daughters Prison Wing.

I was thinking I was new to this but actually, it's probably been that long, if not longer with my DM.

I hope you don't mind me dipping in and out...

I have a MiL with a pretty bad dementia of some sort, no idea what as they've not had any form of assessment done. They moved nearby, we assumed for help but have picked up their previous life and we've barely seen them. Not been in the house or anything, initially because of the local lockdown rules but this has continued.

So some other family came to visit and have been royally entertained for the weekend and now my poor little brain is even more confused by the entire situation. I'm generally one to sort stuff out but I feel the need to leave well alone and I find that hard. My poor DH is quite bereft.

Already dreading Christmas but that's nothing new, as my side of the family is batshit, basically. The in-laws were always reliable, now it's all gone very strange indeed. I have my own DM telling me to get a grip!

This probably should be a post on its own but I don't really want it to be, just writing it is helpful.

Can I just say tho, how helpful it is to read everyone's experiences as otherwise I think we'd end up doing all the looking after on both sides.

@Opal8

Good advice *@Words*!

Mum gets AA
She's had a blue badge for 3 years and it's been an amazing help for hospital visits etc
She's now in a ground floor flat in a sheltered complex which means no stairs, and it's really cheap as the heating is included in the rent
She's decided today to get Wiltshire Farm foods to deliver a hot meal and pudding each day which will mean she might put some weight on
I'm POA for health and finances
She has a Will

Not sure there's much more you can do preparedness wise.

We are all doing our best - and some of you are going above and beyond - so cockroach all x

By photographic ID, do you mean standard passport or licence or something else?

Excellent post.

Sorry about your ddog, memories of those times stay with you, I think. Clearly much loved.

Ah, I've quoted the wrong post. Time to give up for the night! :-)

And things have changed again...

I think DH has realised that respite care is unavoidable because we need a break before FIL comes home and it will give us time to find carers etc. Anyway, he's talked to MIL and reassured her that it is only temporary and so on and she's agreed. She's not keen but she says she trusts DH and I to do what's best.

I managed to get hold of the manager of the home and he's outting things in motion for a Tuesday admission. I've done the PCR test for her and dropped off the sample so it's now just her packing to organise.

Going around and seeing some of the other residents and how frail MIL was, falling asleep and so on because the morning had already taken it out of her, having to have things repeated to her constantly, how she didn't really seem to be taking a lot of it in, made me realise that realistically she's at the stage she should really be in residential care on a permanent basis.

Talking to the manager and going through her medical needs and so on, I was very aware that she is declining. They're going to put plenty of physio in place to try and improve her mobility - she's never really regained it after a hip fracture at the beginning of lock down. And they're going to do a dementia assessment. When he gently suggested that it might be time to trigger the POA I nearly cried.

I feel better but so sad. I love my MIL; at times we've been closer than I am to my own DM. She gives the lie to every mother-in-law cliche and my first novel is dedicated to her. Making the decision with DH to move her into care, even temporarily, feels like a failure, especially as all she and FIL want is to be at home together.

But she'll be better there for a while and we can focus now and setting things in place for them to both come home and be together.

Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone here who's made practical suggestions and shared their own experiences. Having a space to work through all this has been - and will continue to be - such a comfort.

x a million

Burning - that sounds like progress. It is a sad time, but it looks like respite care is the best solution for now.

wombat - yes, that's what I meant. Passport or driving license. Also if the birth certificate is missing, you can apply for a replacement online fairly easily.

Getting these things ready now will save extra stress later when there has been some sort of crisis and PoA needs to be triggered.

and cockroach all .

and cockroach Burning and all.

Your love comes through so strongly in that post.

Burningthetoast trivial packing stuff - name labels so she keeps her clothes, don't send her in with anything that won't go through the wash, get labels for her glasses and hearing aids if she uses them. Pack a few photos or trinkets to personalise the room.

We can't always have what we want, it's part of growing up to realise that. Maybe I want to walk on the moon but it's not going to happen. Hopefully MIL makes a massive improvement with the physio and FIL is restored and things can go back as they are with maybe a bit more support from paid assistants (garden, cleaning, carers) to future proof their setup. That's not going to be happening overnight and until then they need some support to be safe, even if they aren't happy about that.

For what it's worth I think respite is the right move and your husband must know this too, even if he feels guilt about it.

@Wombat49 Thanks for the phto ID tip. I'll pass that on to DH. He's looking at how to trigger the POA. Obviously we put the documents in a safe place and have since moved house twice...

@Knotaknitter Name tags! Thanks - hadn't crossed my mind. I have about a million Cash's ones from when DS was at school but I don't suppose she'll want those. I'll bring some photos from here as well as their place too.