The Cockroach Cafe Mark 2 (general coping with oldies)

[yolofish]

Morning all! regulars or newbies, coping with your oldies is a frustrating, exhausting and difficult business however much we love them. The Cockroach Cafe is open to all, a place to vent, rant, ask questions, get advice, and hopefully laugh too.

For newbies: why cockroach? My DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. My ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. So cockroach mes amis/amies, and may you all live to fight another day.

quirrels you and your sister just have to keep saying: this is an unsafe discharge, no one is available to be there to provide care. Honestly, I know it sounds horrible, but it is the only way they will listen. I've got that particular t-shirt... At this stage, it's not really up to your mum to decide, but to you and your sister. And of course the hospital will want the bed back - but unless they can arrange a proper SAFE discharge then they mustn't do it. Stay tough.

Yep, yolofish has it dead right.

I've just received notice of the annual price increase for my father's nursing home - 5.6% !!! That's 2.5% ABOVE inflation.

I can see why - increase in minimum wage, some improvements to the building (redecoration, carpet replacement, roof repairs, new office - current one is about 6ft square, barely room for manager and administrator to be in there at the same time), and the rate paid by the Council becoming more and more adrift from the actual cost so self-funders have to pick up the tab.

It's really time they sorted out elder care funding - the way some people are funded completely no matter how much savings they have and others have to give up their house and all their savings; and that if you are a self funder, you're paying 40% more than a council-funded residentie you're paying not just for yourself but nearly half of someone else's care too. But they won't get past the two arguments "why should I fund someone else's inheritance" (because at the moment inheritance is a matter of chance, and there's little incentive for anyone to save) and "they'd have to pay for themselves at home so why shouldn't they have to pay for themselves in care" (because most people pay £1000 - £2000 a month to live at home, not many of us are paying £4000 a month).

Mere “ It's really time they sorted out elder care funding - the way some people are funded completely no matter how much savings they have ”

How does that happen?

Sorry to hear of increased costs. I walk past a large care home enroute to work and I constantly see staff keeping the front looking good. I wonder how much that costs.

Pineapple welcome along. I’ve got a friend whose parents don’t understand that she’s self employed and seem to think it’s an excuse to sit home doing naff all. Must be so frustrating.

Quirrel welcome along too
are you going to the hospital? The trouble is, they’re so keen to discharge they need to see the named people saying “no I can’t look after the patient.”

yolo just suggested those so the hospital knows everyone’s keeping an eye.

Thanks to those asking re visit

I turned up looking so miserable, I think she realised I couldn’t cope with another week like last week, and was better.

She hadn’t been to the doctor, but I managed to persuade her to make an appointment. The dizziness is occasional, she says.

After being told yesterday she was medically fit for discharge DM has now relapsed had a bad turn in the night and is back on oxygen. Precisely what we feared might happen at home. Of course when I tried to explain this to DM she would have none of it and denies ever being ill. Still waiting for a call from social worker about when they will do the assessment but we will be there in person. Sis on hospital visiting today but I will go if necessary.

It's all so depressing.
I am 61 and DM is 85. I see myself in 20 years time in her shoes (though my health might suggest I won't last that long). A brush with mortality myself this last year made me feel very strongly that I want an exit strategy for myself. I don't want the grim decline that very old age brings and I don't want to die slowly of cancer.

Quirrel, good that you and/or sis will be there.

I know what you mean re exit strategy. I had the brush with mortality at 37, am 44 now. It’s a very thought provoking thing, though easier for me I guess, as single and childfree.

Mine was an accident, which I think is problematic because I think doctors will fight to save someone even if there’s a document saying “no extraordinary measures”. I’d like to make that document but fear the GP will take it badly, so to speak.

AutumnRose1 That's an interesting point. We tend to think of those end of life declarations as only for the elderly. DH and I have wills, we even have LPAs set up with DC as attorneys should the need ever arise, but I never thought about DNRs and the like. I might well look into it.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread but just want to let off steam after another call out..2 elderly relatives.One who refuses all help because she 'can manage' ie.housebound,frail,failing site.Reliant on myself and siblings otherwise no food in house,bed not changed and despite being told we don't need to worry and go if we miss a day she is miserable and 'hasn't spoken to a living soul'
Plus losing it somewhat so hovers outside and talks to passing random strangers.That's no 1 and I'm going to get tough and tell her for our sake ,not hers we are getting some help at least 3 days a week.
No 2 loves having 'staff'.Already has a home help and cleaners but has us on speed dial and likes everything sorted immediately .Its not fair but I think I resent this more because she's never married,had family and apart from a teeny bit of babysitting for us years ago- and only when she had absolutely nothing on otherwise that day -has pretty much looked after herself and no one else all her life.
It's not their fault they are now frail and in their 90s but they have both had 30+ years of pension since 60 and never experienced this 'sandwich ' situation of working,helping with GCs and elderly care.I have made a vow not to do this to our DC s.To put things in place so they can visit largely because they want to,not because they have to.And if I insist on staying in my own home ensure I accept help,and have realistic expectations of what my DCs can do with all theiir other commitments.Aaargh !It is a selfish vent because comparatively DH añd I do very little compared to some carers.I just wake up everyday with this sense of responsibility and feeling tired by it,on top of everything else.

Meant sight obviously.

Snugglepiggy I think the resentment is common. My mother was very absent during my childhood, she was, and would still like to be, a social butterfly who was never at home. She often expressed surprise at how involved I was with my own DC. She liked having grandchildren for the competitive grandmotherly conversations with friends but I got little real practical help. She also likes having staff , a cleaner who also takes her shopping and runs errands. She's rubbish at cleaning but I am very grateful that it takes the pressure off us.

My biggest regret about having DC late is that they are likely to be faced with sick / elderly parents while in their 20s or 30s.

I’m resentful and my parents were lovely!

quirrels as we’re speaking frankly....mum had me at 38. Dad was first ill when I was 16. But in 20s and 30s you’ve got more energy to deal with work and hospital etc etc so tbh I don’t think I’d feel better if I was dealing with it later.

I dont know... mum had DB when she was 26 and me when she was 32. We were both sent to boarding school, DB at 8 and me at 10. This caused us both enormous resentment.

So when she needed care and I was the daughter round the corner it was quite a sea change, and I do admit to feeling extreme resentment. DB I think even worse. Dad dropped dead aged 68, so although that was very hard it didnt involve the caring aspect.

In the words of Philip Larkin, "they fuck you up your mum and dad..." I'm sure I've fucked my DC up in some ways but I am determined not to do it through being 'poor old mummy'.

Interesting to hear about our feelings of resentment and desire not to be like this ourselves!

My Df 92 always said if he ever 'got old' to put a pillow over his face and I think he believed it at the time. Now he's determined to cling on to life by the fingernails, even though he is frail, housebound, has more things wrong with him than I can count and is chronically bored!

I am mid 50's with teenagers and will be very happy to bow out at 75 or 80 (or earlier if ill) to avoid putting my kids through the kind of stuff my Father puts me through.

I visited him yesterday and always dread going, while he tells me how much he enjoys it and is counting off the days until my next visit! The guilt is terrible, but even though he is so bored he won't socialise with 'the boring old people' in his retirement village

whenever someone on MN - never heard it in real life - says "old age is better than the alternative" - I scream!!

No, I think old age is pretty shit for many people. If you are healthy, mobile and have money then it's probably fine. Take any one of those three things away and it gets very tricky indeed.

I'm late 50s, DDs are 23 and almost 21. If I last another 30 years I will be the same as DM when she died. I'd settle for 25 good years and pass on the physical and mental decline.

Parsley I can identify with your father's disparaging comments on other elderly people.A less pleasant ,and less empathetic, side or my mum on recent year is how disparaging she is about anyone who has had to start using a wheelchair/ carers / go in a home etc.Especially if they are a few years younger ie still late 80s / early 90s.Any of the above to my mum is compared with how well she is doing -not- and a sign they are simply not trying enough .And she is not old like 'them'.I simply don't tell her half the stuff about friends parents,ex neighbours etc as a result now.

Yeah, mine hated 'old people' too... So she wouldnt go to anything that was on offer as it would be full of 'old people'.

Reading these posts gives me such a sense of relief that I am not a horrible person for the way I feel but also that I don't have it anywhere near as tough as some you.

Mum and I had a bit of a quarrel yesterday because I mentioned the "C" word and she said that I was selfish for wanting them! I honestly can't face the idea of personal care - as it was she wasn't dressed when I got there - had just started putting her trousers on - and then I realised that she hadn't any underwear on so had to help her with that, pulled up her trousers then she wanted me to take everything down and put a pad on her knickers! If she had a carer it would be done for her.

Today she has a bit of an upset tum so I have told her to stay in bed because she can get to the toilet more quickly so I have peace to stay in the house with teen daughter and wait on her instead! In daughter's defence she is studying for her A levels so needs a bit of spoiling.

My biggest regret about having DC late is that they are likely to be faced with sick / elderly parents while in their 20s or 30s. If you'd had them early they might be dealing with elderly parents when they were in their 70s.

autumn what I was meaning about funding is that if someone is deemed to have unpredictable nursing needs, they get CHC, which pays for all their nursing care and for all their daily care, living costs and food as well, no matter how well off they are. But if they have nursing needs, and are therefore in a nursing home, if the nursing needs aren't unpredictable enough, they have to pay for everything themselves. And that's what happens to most people with dementia.

Mere I didn’t know that about CHC. I just remember it being horrendously complex when I thought I was applying for dad, but then again, I was applying for a six week thing so perhaps I’m in a muddle.

Autumn Were you applying for the fast track end-of-life CHC funding?

Dad is a self funder. He's in a nursing home, so that costs more than a care home, and although he gets a small weekly nursing element which is paid to the home not to him, the nursing home charges him more than a similar care home would. And self funders are charged up to 40% more than Councils are charged. So it seems that people without means are having their care funded, but instead the cost being spread across all taxpayers, or even across all pensioners, a chunk of it is being dumped on self funders (ie any home owner needing care who has outlived their spouse). While people who have been awarded CHC don't just get their nursing care funded (which they should), they also get their living costs funded.

Test

I was thinking about my parents today.

Dad dropped dead (literally, heart attack on the golf course) aged 68.

Mum outlived him for a further 22 years.

I would say 15 of those years were mostly good before she started her decline.

Personally, I would go for the sudden sharp shock for my own benefit, but also for the DDs.

Yes it was horrible, but so was watching DM decline and become so dependent (from having been a fiiercely independent woman), and then having a horrible death.

No contest in my book.

hairbrush when I was first on here, I felt the same. It’s hard to talk about IRL.

Mere yes, I remember now. The difficulty was that the docs didn’t believe he was dying until 3 days before he actually did, it was mad.

No offence to the docs, who were doing their best.

yolo yes, before my dad died, a friend’s mum, who we thought strong as an ox, died of a heart attack while reading a book in a chair. Terrible shock for my friend but the kind of passing most of us would wish for.