Need some help. Visiting my elderly father is excrutiating.

[needsomehelpwiththisone]

I've done a new account for this post but I've been here for a long time.

I am desperate for some advice about visiting my elderly father, because I feel like the world's biggest bitch and I don't know what to do.

Background: We have nothing in common. We did not get on well when I was growing up. I am an only child (relevant). My mother is dead (also relevant).

A few years ago, dad, by then in his mid 80s (now late 80s) moved into sheltered accommodation about a half hour drive from me having previously lived seven hours away at the other end of the country. There was really no other option as due to my own poor health I could not make the visit to see him any more and he was all alone and beginnig to struggle on his own. Until the point where he moved, we saw each other once a year, perhaps twice at the very most - I would go "home" to visit for a couple of days at a time and we'd both be climbing the walls after a day. Visits were only ever two days at the most. My father is very insular. Conversations consisted of "Do you watch this television programme?" and nothing more. He was never interested in anything I had to say, so I didn't bother to tell him what was going on in my life. It was painful.

Now he lives near me and is older and still on his own, I am expected to visit once a week. In principle I agree with this, he's on his own after all and I'm his only living relative. But I find the visits absolutely excrutiating and I'm beginning to put off going. We are not close, and we have nothing to talk about. He doesn't listen to anything I have to say, so there's no point telling him anything. I arrive, I take him to the shop, but this only takes half an hour at the most, and then I don't know what to do. We sit there in silence. He doesn't do anything except watch television, so I can't ask him about his day. He's also very deaf, so conversation is almost impossible, even if he was interested in anything I had to say.

He also insists on phoning me twice a day just to "hear my voice" (he can make out my voice on the phone, apparently, but nobody else's). I understand why, he's very lonely, but I don't know what to say to him then either and vice versa. I have no clue how to relate to him at all and never have done. Our relationship growing up was fractious and argumentative and unpleasant - he's mellowed with age - but there are no nice memories to sit and talk about. I sometimes take him out for lunch, but again, conversation is so difficult that we sit and eat lunch in the pub in silence and then I take him home again.

Please, what can I do to make these visits more bearable for both of us? Not going is not an option, since he will call me and beg me to go if I don't. I dread going. I put it off for as long as humanly possible. And I feel terrible.

Him not being able to do simple things does indicate a memory problem. If he is assessed as having dementia there are things you can do to encourage him to wash and accept personal care. If he is assessed not to have capacity he can be moved into a care home against his wishes and personal care will be given as its in his best interests. It doesn’t mean hed be physically forced but other techniques such as distractions and white lies will help encourage him. Often home help carers aren’t allowed to use some of these techniques to the degree needed in care homes.

He is unable to tolerate the anxiety that he experiences when he can't contact you
You are unable to tolerate the anxiety and distress that you feel when he repeatedly contacts you, ignoring him causes anxiety and distress which is even more intolerable.

If you carry on like this it seems likely that you will have some kind of a breakdown?

Sigh. I know he has a memory problem, which is why I've taken him to the memory clinic.

Are my words completely invisible? How many times do I actually need to say this stuff?

ignoring him causes anxiety and distress which is even more intolerable.

Ignoring him makes him redouble his efforts to contact me. If I don't answer the phone, he will literally ring every two minutes until I do. He does not get the message. It does not sink in that he is not getting the desired result so he stops. He does not. He carries on, and on, and on, and on, until he does.

This is not a case of breaking the cycle like you would with a tantrumming toddler. It does not work.

I can't bear it any longer.

And I'm bloody sick to DEATH of him making me responsible for alleviating his anxiety levels, and his thinking this is acceptable.

If you dad refuses care and has capacity then the carers have to respect his wishes. They can't forcibly shower him. Your anger is misdirected at them, it's out of their remit. I don't know enough about the dementia assessment process but it is up to higher qualified professionals to assess his capacity alongside your input.

As many, many people have said you need to get a new phone. Keep your current number for yourself but get a new phone just for him and change the sticker on his phone to the new number. Then you are in control of when you look at it and see and swiftly delete the missed calls. This is the best you can do but you seem unwilling. He is in sheltered accommodation so he doesn't need to call you in an emergency, and the care staff can still contact you on your usual number if necessary. If you don't take action like this then you have to accept the multiple phone call situation as you aren't prepared to do anything to change your situation, much in the same way as your Dad doesn't want to do anything to change his situation.

As I've said in a previous post, I am not in a dissimilar situation (I have a sibling but living overseas). For me the catalyst for change is that I have small children and their needs have had to take priority. I compartmentalise my Dad and see him for short visits once or twice a week. Yes, there is guilt, but he won't help himself so I have broken the cycle and made it work on my terms. I can't fix his problems if he doesn't want help and I made the choice not to let him drag me down. My husband I think initially thought I was being cruel, but I told him about my childhood and once he got to know my Dad he can see exactly why I have made that choice. That route may not be for you, in which case carry on. But don't do it because you aren't secure enough in your assessment of the situation to worry what other people may think. Only your opinion of whether you're being cruel or not matters.

OK so you can't physically leave town but you CAN leave him to the care of others for at least a week with immediate effect . He is safe and not at risk. He gets meals and is monitored.

You however are far more important than him.

Give notice to the warden and social worker and go off grid.
The problem with his repeated phone calls can be dealt with by blocking his number.

You have over a hundred good people telling you the same. DO IT NOW. You have to go cold turkey and the sooner the better. Mumsnetters will hold your hand for the next week or so while you go off grid and help you keep your resolve.

Then you are in control of when you look at it and see and swiftly delete the missed calls. This is the best you can do but you seem unwilling.

It's not that I'm unwilling. But it doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't stop him calling me and it doesn't stop his distress at not being able to get hold of me, which makes him call me even more, and I'm still going to see fifty three thousand missed calls every time I pick up the other phone. I may as well keep my current one and not have the expense of another. Unless someone can suggest a phone that doesn't show missed call notifications, but nobody answered that. I googled it, but all that turned up was people who were having trouble getting notifications on their phones and wanted to know how to make them show - the exact opposite of what I need.

I can not put into words how much stress the missed calls causes me, just seeing it. It is like being stalked, having someone who won't leave you alone.

He gets two meals a day - a cooked lunch and sandwiches for tea. I still have to take him shopping to buy his breakfast food and his personal things. Milk. Tea. Toilet roll. Etc. I can't totally leave him. There's nobody else to do that for him. I don't see how I can go "off grid".

Then get a second phone, put that number on his sticker and leave it turned off for long periods. Then you don't see the missed calls. I would be very surprised if the cost of a second phone for incoming calls only was more than a few pounds a month and that would seem money well spent given your level of stress.

And I'm bloody sick to DEATH of him making me responsible for alleviating his anxiety levels, and his thinking this is acceptable

So what, he has high anxiety levels. And I doubt he actually thinks it through enough to wonder what effect it has on you or whether it is acceptable. Toughen up OP. Many people with dementia get violent or unpleasant to their family and carers. I would think most don't ponder for too long on how to change that, it is what it is.
Do the minimum you need to do to avoid the guilt and get on with your life.
You are trying to fix the unfixable.

But surely I'd still see them when I turn it on again.

It's not going to stop him doing it, in fact he'll probably do it even more when I don't answer.

There would also be multiple pleading answerphone messages when I turned the phone back on. He does that already. Leaves me messages in a sad strained voice saying "please please call me" whenever I don't answer.

Alma, perhaps if you're going to be so unhelpful and blase, you could pick another thread to do it on. I don't need advice like that.

"Toughen up"? Try living this, then tell me that. Or not. Or just go away. That would be preferable.

And for the last time, he does NOT HAVE A BLOODY DEMENTIA DIAGNOSIS. He has been like this for TEN YEARS. At least.

I've never had a phone that tells me about missed calls when it's turned off although I know some do. Not sure if it's phone or provider but it's perfectly possible. No need to listen to the voicemails, they are automatically deleted by my network if you don't. Before my Dad went into a care home I set up online shopping so you could do that or I would do his shopping and take it round rather than take him out.

He doesn't buy enough to do online shopping. I take him to the shop once a week and he buys two tins of prunes, some toilet roll, some biscuits and cakes for snacks, and some breakfast cereal and some chocolate for the kitchen staff. But he still needs this stuff. I can't leave him without it. And if I don't take him to the shop he doesn't leave his room at all - it's the only place he ever goes. He likes to go.

None of that stuff is perishable. It doesn't need to be a weekly shop, unless that suits you. He has the option of communal areas, if he chooses not to that's up to him, not your responsibility. You aren't leaving him without anywhere to go.

Just because he does not have a diagnosis does not mean he does not have dementia. Memory loss to the extent you Dad has and the effect it has on his day to day life is not a normal part of ageing. Carers can do the shopping if it bothers you to see him so much. Then you can cut your visits down to what you can manage. You can get companies in to move his stuff And dispose of things he does not need if he has to go into a care home. You can block his number from your phone and reinstate it when you want to. You could have carers come in more often or for a longer period of time. Lots of practical solutions I. This thread.

The bottom line OP is that whatever you chose to do one of you is going to be unhappy.

Right now you are miserable and overwhelmed taking his calls. He has conditioned you across your lifetime to put his need to be happy ahead of your need to run your own life. Calling you repeatedly soothes his anxiety. It's destroying you quality of life.

It's not difficult. You must make a straight choice. Him or you?

Alma is not being unhelpful. Your dad almost certainly has a form of dementia and the diagnosis will eventually follow. You have to be assertive and choose yourself over him. You aren't the first and you won't be the last to be in this insidious position but you have to find strength from somewhere to climb the next hurdle.
Calling your number is his addiction. Is his phone a landline or a mobile? He won't stop unless you physically remove his phone from his room or change your number, block him or disable speed dial. Consider breaking his phone deliberately when he is at the toilet. Delete your voice mails without playing them. Clients and friends will ring back.

None of that stuff is perishable. It doesn't need to be a weekly shop, unless that suits you. He has the option of communal areas, if he chooses not to that's up to him, not your responsibility. You aren't leaving him without anywhere to go.

But he can't leave the building without me. There's nowhere else for him to go. What am I not making clear? If I didn't take him to the shop he'd never go out, ever. He can't get out by himself, he can't walk far enough to go to the shop on his own, and he needs help remembering what to buy when he gets there. Taking him shopping is his one little link to normality. There's nobody else to take him. The carers don't do that. The staff don't do that. It's down to me.

It's not perishable no, but there's very limited storage space - there's one kitchen that the residents share in which they all have one kitchen cupboard with their name on it, that has to hold all their food, teabags, stuff like that, and all their plates/cups etc. There just isn't room to do it any other way, so it's not like I can order in bulk online and get it delivered, he'd have nowhere to put anything.

I couldn't break his phone! He still needs to be able to do things like phone his doctor, phone his chemist. And for people to be able to phone him, like the district nurses who come to see him, if they're late etc. He has a landline in his room (all the residents have their own phone lines). I have a mobile. I deliberately haven't given him my landline number because I can't turn the ringing off and it would ring all the time if I did.

My point is that whether he has dementia or not is immaterial (and yes, Alma was unhelpful, telling me to "toughen up". She can bugger off, frankly). He did this before he started having memory problems. This is not down to dementia. It's been going on for years. I've said all this multiple times in the thread and people aren't listening. Just like he doesn't bloody listen.

What do you think older people do whose family live hundreds of miles away, or abroad even? Or refuse to help out? As an ex district nurse of many years I have seen family run ragged too often. My own DM ended up on antidepressants and BP medication with the stresses of my GM. Your DF is in his 80's, you could have another several years of this easily. Inform SS he is a vulnerable adult at risk, and as of 1st November you are stepping right back. There will be no-one to do his shopping or take him to the doctors. Thousands of elderly people don't have anyone to do this. If he phones you 200 times, leave him to it. You are suffering because you are trying to do what you perceive to be the right thing. It's certainly not right for you and his needs don't trump yours. Sometimes allowing a crisis to develop is the only way to force change.
My GM died by the way aged 89 and my DM followed her six months later suddenly aged 69. Good luck.

Right, and what happens when he refuses? There's nobody to take him shopping, or to the doctors, or to his hospital appoiuntments, because he won't let them, and then what, he just dies?

At the risk of sounding morbid if you were run over by a bus tomorrow someone would step in to deal with him, practicalities, anxiety etc. You are not the only one who can do this.

Also why listen to the messages? Get a separate number, preferably one that doesn't log missed calls if possible, delete any messages from him. He can still blow off steam sending them but you don't have to listen.

A residential home might be better for him. He'd have more daily social interaction and then potentially more to talk about. His life sounds very isolating.