Private educaiton - is everyone really rich that sends their kids?

[Clare123]

We are fairly wealthy, but I still think education 2 kids privately is so much money! I was wondering how most families do it?!

You have to be able to commit to finding an extra few thousand per year per child, and be aware that this will go up with inflation.

For some people (even middle-class earners) this is not about careful financial planning, it's just lunacy, and unattainable.

I find it sad, as I do think there should be educational alternatives available - just not necessarily for money.

Around 7% of children go to private school in the UK, average annual fees around £9k for juniors to around £16k for sixth form. Some schools are much cheape than others.

Boarding fees obviously more but there are relatively few boarders nowadays.

Average full time earnings for men are around £28k (office for national statistics) and for women around £22k. £37k after tax incl child ben/tax credits?

It would be possible to send 1 child on this income, or even 2 children, but you wouldn't have a very lavish lifestyle. There are a considerable number of parents who both work full time and sacrifice general standard of living for the family to send their children to private schools. Grandparents often help with school fees too.

But the majority of folk who send their kids to private schools probably have a household income above this £50k which would put them in the top 20% for household income - ie comparatively rich.

I think the thing is that families with an income of £50k do not perceive themselves to be "comparatively rich" or even "comparatively well off". I am not sure quite how much more than £50k you need to earn in order to view yourself as comparatively rich?

It's funny cos I'm always amazed by how many households can afford a SAHM by choice. If that SAHM or SAHD even part-time on the minimum wage went back to work she or he could make enough money for school fees. As other posters have said my salary pretty much goes on the school fees (for 2) and dp pays pretty much the rest. We're teachers so not rich but comfortable compared to many but we've both always worked. So, while I appreciate that there are many who could never afford the fees I do believe there are many who could but make other choices such as SAHM or bigger mortgage or whatever. Not criticising those choices by the way but we've chosen private education over them.

Fivecandles are you serious? Is private education cheaper then than childcare for a baby? Because I could go out to work part time and put DS (13 months) in nursery, but I'd be earning nothing, it would all go on the nursery fees. I fail to see that me working part time when he is older would pay for private school TBH!

Actually, we found private education considerably cheaper than nursery fees, Bertie. But I was talking about 2 parent families with school-aged children where 1 parent stays at home out of choice. I know people in this situation who say they can't afford private education. Assuming the working parent was earning enough to cover all the other family expenses, then even if the SAHM began earning £-10 k a year that would mean they could.

£5-10k that should say.

If you can afford nursery fees (esp for 2) you can almost certainly afford private school fees. Whether you choose to pay them is another issue.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540978/Nursery-fees-now-rival-cost-of-Eton-education.html

fivecandles, I agree with the link between the second earner's income and childcare/school fees. If the second earner's income can cover fulltime and, to a lesser extent, parttime childcare, even if they took home nothing after that, it can probably cover private school fees.

Hence it is a relatively smooth transition from paying for childcare to paying for school fees, if paying for a private education is a priority for that family.

If the second earner keeps their foot on the job ladder without significant breaks, chances are their salary will also be on the higher scale.

My daughter is in reception at a private school and we are not at all rich and don't have help from grandparents etc.
Her fee's at the moment are abot £1,000 a term but will increase to £1500 when the government nursery funding rund out after she's 5. It then goes up to just under £2000, as they goe further up the school.

I know people have said, what some people class as not rich, others would say they were. I am actually a care assistant, for young people with learning difficulties. I earn £7 an hour and work night shifts.
My husband is a youth support worker, simmilar to an un-trained social worker, so his wages aren't that fantastic either.
We don't have a lot of money at all, but it makes us happy to think that our daughter is at a lovely school. We are a very close family, and we don't need a lot of money to be happy. If a time comes and it's the school or the mortgage, then of corse she'll have to come out.

Yes, I'd say that the overwhelming majority of children at m dcs' independent school are from dual income families. In many cases, as in my own, neither partner is particularly wealthy but the combined income is just enough to cover everything. As you say, bluehoes, the fact that I never stepped off the career ladder now that the kids are a bit older I'm able to move back towards full-time work and have also got promoted so as a family we're finding things much less tight than they were when we paying nursery fees for 2 and I was part-time on a mainscale salary.

Only read the OP... My dsis and I went to private schools (7 year age gap between us, she went to boarding school for senior school) and our family was not wealthy. We had no help from gps or anyone else, my mum was a sahm and dad was never in the higher rate tax band, yet he managed 2 sets of school fees and the only debt he had was his mortgage. Plus we both went through uni and left with no debts. He managed it through really careful budgeting, no foreign holidays (we went to gps for all holidays - best holidays of my life!). He and my mum didn't go out much and definitely didn't spend much on clothes/alcohol/fancy meals etc and when things needed doing in the house they had to save for it.

Never felt deprived or left out at school - no-one made a big deal about 'stuff' that we had/wore etc. We had a real mix of backgrounds, not just the mega-wealthy.

Mind you, I can sympathise with your feeling. Dh earns more that my dad ever did and I looked at school fees recently and nearly passed out! But its all about priorities, and at the time the state schools near us were not that great (my mum had worked there so was in a position to know)

But I still think it's funny how people don't think they can afford private school fees but do fund nursery fees or one partner to SAH in the long-term.

Well, I am working at a school, money not great but an doing it for school hours and holdiays etc. My salary just covers school fees £600 a month, and I have another £100 left over. A sacrifice but well worth it. If I dind't work we could not afford it, only have one ds, couldn't afford two. I also work partime a couple of evenings a week

you also have to think of the effect on a child of knowing that the whole family has made huge sacrifices to give him or her this perceived benefit. What if said child wants to drop out at 16, or fails all its GCSEs? The burden of guilt in later life would be horrible!

I would much rather go to a state school if I was the DC -all that expectation would be crushing. I also wouldn't like being the poor relation and when the rest do all the extras my parents couldn't afford it. I have a friend who teaches at an independent school and some of the DCs get the most ridiculous amounts of pocket money-not surprisingly there is an alcohol and drug problem. I wonder if the DC gets a choice as to whether they want the sacrifice to be made?
(I know that some people do without holidays, smart cars etc just to put food on the table-it is all relative and I was talking about those who do without them to afford school fees).

Lupo, how about working in a private school that provides discounts for the staff's children? Is that a possibility?

We almost sent dd to an independent school and we are not rich by any means - I am a teacher and dp earns a similar wage. We would struggle to pay 2 sets of fees though.

I don't think a household income of £72K would make you rich, seems a fairly average salary for a professional couple a few years into their careers.

It would look pretty rich to anyone on the average income for a family in the UK - which is less than half that!

I would define rich as not needing to work or worry about money.

That is not the category that private school parents are in. Most do have to work - mum and dad - and they do worry about money.

But depending on the school and the area the 'poor relation' stuff that's trotted out here is a myth. Certainly at my dcs' school there are rich parents but the majority are not what you would think of as 'rich'. We are teachers, there are also nurses, driving instructors, a student (GPs who are also not rich pay fees), etc. A significant proportion have 1 or both parents who are GPs, lawyers, accounants, dentists (who would certainly be comfortably off but not such that it would make a noticeable difference to the children's lifestyle in the eyes of the other children). Up to 30% of children in the independent sector are in receipt of some form of bursary. To receive a full bursary at my dcs' school you have to have a family income of less than £20k a year. This means that there are children at independent schools from very low income backgrounds (and if you do the research probably more of these than at state grammars and some of the top 'comprehensives') If you have principles which mean you don't want to choose private school that's all well and good but I think it's really sad if you're not choosing private school because of being worried your kids would not fit in (on financial grounds).

To my mind it's just as sad as thinking your kkids wouldn't fit it at university or at nursery (since fees for both of these are greater than private school).

As for the sacrifice and pressure idea, well this applies to all aspects of parenthood. I honestly don't think I ask or expect any more of my kids because I pay for their education than I would otherwise. I want them to be happy and work hard. In fact, the school does expect more of them than a state school which means they work harder than they would in a state school and consequently achieve more and have a wider range of support and opportunities academic and otherwise available to them. Also, it's very unlikely that your kids would 'let you down' at a private school as if you felt it wasn't working out you could always whip them out but most private schools get amazing results (100% A-C at GCSE at my dcs' school and 50% A at A Level).

Seeker, when you refer to average income, are you talking about all households, or just those where the residents are working?

CertainAge - I wonder if what you really need to know is that:

"In 2006/07 the proportion of children living in households in the bottom quintile group was 25 per cent."

From here. This means that children are over-represented in much poorer than average households.

I did a little research after making my post. I didn't answer my question, but found out that there were 4.8 million working age people in workless households (they can't all be disabled), and 1.9 million children in workless households.

I don't think it is fair to include non-working families in the breast-beating about private schools. People who use private schools know they need to work in order to do so, and will work as hard as they can in order to earn as much as they can. People who aren't willing to do that are fairly irrelevent to the debate, tbh.