Private educaiton - is everyone really rich that sends their kids?

[Clare123]

We are fairly wealthy, but I still think education 2 kids privately is so much money! I was wondering how most families do it?!

Being active in the Parents' Association gives you an insight into a school that you don't get otherwise . Try it (but don't get sucked in!).

The system is only geared up to accommodate the number of normal users. The state doesn't keep 7% of places in schools empty on the off chance that private school pupils are suddenly going to need them - it deploys education resources across current users and then has to rejig its budget and resources as and when pupil numbers increase.

I must admit I do find the pseudo-altruistic "oh, we are doing you plebs a favour by taking our children out of the system to free up resources for you" nonsense from the private parents hugely amusing.

It's not "amusing". All governments (left, right and everything either side and in between) know that parents fund a huge proportion of the better education in the UK and know that they cannot afford to change that.

UnquietDad - you are amused by some odd things. Do you like Monty Python as well or just laugh at people who send their children to private schools?

I have never heard it used as a justification, just as a convenient by-product that the state is realising now was very handy. Because, as StarlightMcKenzie has pointed out, when those privately educated children cease to be privately educated in times of economic downturn coupled with a greater demand generally, the state system starts to break down. It isn't funny as is impacts on the vast majority of children in this country.

On a superficial level, I couldn't give a monkeys if some people choose to spend their money on education their children. It is their entitlement.

However, the part that rankles me (and I could never fund a private school education (i.e. no rich gp, average earnings, mortgage)) is the way the clients of private schools bang on about the extra benefits offered to their children.

This boasting about advantages gained through wealth emphasises the inequalities in our society. And what response do these expect? Awe? Envy? Deference?

You forget, Trickerg, these parents are PAYING for it. They are not being given anything for free. That is their choice. Not getting the basics, a good solid education through the state system, support where needed, pastoral care, that is an issue. Not getting the extras, ballet, music, old school tie, well, that is something else.

Going to private school is not a guarantee of success in life, just as not going to one is not a guarantee of failure.

I think the argument here really should be, not is it right to send children to private schools, but why are state schools not all as good as they should be and not all able to offer the basics of a rounded, solid education to all children. That is the scandal.

CertainAge I'd love to know how. We've been told that ds is not entitled to any support. Another boy in his year has been told the same from his LEA (different to ours). If you know different then please share.

When I enquired about ds being seen by an Ed Psych we weren't offered any hoops or a waiting list. We were simply told that because he is at private school he has no entitlement to use LEA resources.

That makes no sense to me as we live in the LEA area and ds is a child that needs help. I would have thought that is sufficient. It certainly is for the NHS. If we were put on a waiting list and told that it would take a year to be seen then obviously we could decide to wait or spend money and go privately. However we can't even get on the list.

Fortunately ds's GP has been fab and we've been referred via the NHS to a community paediatrician who said at our appointment on Friday that he can arrange for ds to see an Ed Psych which surprised me. From seeing the GP to our NHS appointment was 10 days. No special treatment because ds is at private school, simply what is the norm where we live.

Are you assuming that because I pay school fees I have pots of money to spend on an Ed Psych? Unfortunately not true.

What I meant, Mollie, is that you can get your chequebook out and have your DS seen to immediately.

I think there is an entitlement to LEA resources even if your child is privately educated, but they will drag their feet so much that you give up for the sake of your child and fund the extra help yourself.

It's not a lot different from NHS vs private healthcare - go on a waiting list (if in a state school) or open your wallet (in either sector).

Interesting notion of altruism, Unquietdad.

I have read many posts on Mumsnet from people who want to ban private education on the grounds that the middle class children with improve state schools by their very presence.

Either way, these children are doing someone a favour - by freeing up resources, or by boosting something (not sure what) in the classroom.

Starlight, would you prefer it if I prefaced everything I said with, 'I am very lucky'??

I already regularly put in 'some' and 'of course there will always be a lot of people who will never be able to make these choices'.

I have said many times that I am talking here about there being a significant number of people who ARE in a position to pay for private education but CHOOSE not to.

That is my point which, like it or not, is true.

What, exactly, is your point?

The OP asks if you have to be rich to send your kids to private school and I am in a position to answer no to that question given that most people would not consider teachers to be rich (and yes, I know, I know I'm ridiculously lucky to be a teacher) and given that very few of the kids at the dcs' school have parents who would be considered rich either and many are there because they are on bursaries which actually means they have a family income of something less than 15k a year. So, I'm here to answer the question posed in the OP. Why are you here again?

The only time I've ever had to wait for a medical appointment for ds was private. All our many NHS referrals have been very prompt.

Jajas ds was 7 weeks prem and has has a myriad of health problems. Our GP has always been excellent in getting us whatever help he needs.

actually trickerg I don't really understand your point.

I don't know anyone in RL who 'bangs on ' about private education - it seems to be a MN obsession - but I would be very surprised if anyone said that they were happy to pay for an education that was exactly the same as the one they could get for free.

One of the main reasons that two of my DCs go to independent school - when we have some very good state school locally - is the range of activities and sports etc arranged and available duringthe school day and/or within school supervision.

Having a DC with SN I could not take DD to gym or swimming or ballet after school, it would be impossible. It is worth it to me that these are done at school either during the school day or after school. She does , for example, 6 hours of gym a week, at school and under the school supervision. I could never do that as an out of school activity.

Were I in different circumstances and could cover gym, rugby, cricket, ballet, drama, swimming, shooting etc etc via out of school activities clubs I would chose a school with very different criteria . Or if one of the good local state schools offered those without my having to attend then I would jump at the chance.

Of course not all children need out of school activities if their family circumstances mean that they are busy and engaged etc at home. For my DCs everything we do is affected by my need to care for DS2.

So 'added value' and extras are a big part of why I pay. But I don't bang on about it unless I am asked

LAR - I didn't mean benefits as out of school activities necessarily - I meant the benefits of the small class sizes, perfect teachers, academic achievement, facilities, etc, etc. I just feel that people are crowing about it half the time, while us plebs are meant to stand in awe.

Glad you know your place trickerg

And as for 'It isn't an option to send our children to an independent school (for a variety of reasons not just financial) and actually, I'd quite like to, but fate didn't throw the necessary resources our way.'

Is the implication, then, that 'fate' did 'throw the necessary resources' my way??? Because, while I do accept that I have been very lucky in all sorts of ways that's really not the way I see the way my life and my choices have turned out. I PLANNED my life and made CHOICES to get where I am. Yes, I know, I know, I am lucky that I could do this. Yes, I know, I know, not everybody can make the same choices I did but all I am saying is that there are a lot of people who COULD make different choices. If they don't want to that's fine. But it does surprise me when I listen to people assume that a) all parents who send their kids to private school are incrediby wealthy and lucky to boot when this is not the case and b) quite often these people are sitting in a house worth 4 times as much as mine or are funding a SAHM for 10+ years either of which would easily pay for the school fees for their kids.

Class sizes aren't always smaller than state. One local state school has the same class size and another one has smaller.

X-posted trickerg

although MN on the state vs private threads, also remains the only place I ever see anyone 'crowing' about private school. I don't know anyone who talks about their schools in RL the way they do on MN.
In particular I don't know anyone who regards non independent school parents as plebs either

Pretty weird really.Its like an alternate nastier universe on here sometimes.

'There is an assumption amongst some here that most people, if they rethought their values i.e. didn't buy expensive cars, made sacrifices in their childless days etc. then they could afford to privately educate.'

Maybe that's true Starlight but that is not and never has been my assumption. In fact, I have explicity said this several times.

I have also repeatedly mentioned the significant number of children whose parents are on very low or non-existent incomes who access the independent sector through bursaries. This is a fact that is repeatedly ignored in order to propigate the myths and stereotypes about private schools.

That's all right then pagwatch. I'll have to stop all this Mning! It's giving me the wrong ideas!

Who is calling who a pleb?