any studies on private education value for money?

[beforesunrise]

I know there's all the statistics about the % of people in power etc coming from private schools (actually btw can anyone like some actual studies, as I keep seeing references but I'd like to read the source material). But i was wondering if there are any studies showing the return on schooling investment, ie the salary differential of private school educated people vs state educated. I know such studies exist in America, anything here in the UK?

thanks in advance

ABetaDad you have completely misread my tone. Ds is at private school! I've never said that private schools should be shut down although I'm a bit at admissions tests for 3 or 4 yr olds.

betadad - I understand your point that some parents have no chice but to use the independent system but I really don't think it's most.
Many of the parents at DCs school live in catchment of outstanding state schools but still prefer to pay for better facilities/broader curiculum etc. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with their local schools, in fact they are ridiculously over subscribed, but they pay for the extra because they can. Even some teachers in those 'outstanding' schools have DCs at ours.

MollieO and Litchick - do you live in London?

If you do live in London I must say I do agree with both of you that London is a bit of special case in selecting private over state school. The rest of the country is not like that in my experience but maybe you have had different experiences. I get a sense of disquiet in your comments.

Our DS1 and DS2 used to go to an intensely selective Pre-prep in the South east. It was the the nearest school to where we lived and the state primary schools had 38 in a class. We took them out even though the teachers said our DS1 would easily move on to the even more intensively selective Prep nearby and possibly even get a scholarship.

Instead, we deliberately moved them to a nice small provincial Prep that is as close as we can get to what our own experience of state primary school was like.

Our friends think we are insane for giving up the chance of sending our kids to 'one of the best Prep schools' in the country. Well we just think this intense competition and overbearing focus on league tables is insane so we moved elsewhere to avoid it.

Admission tests for 3 - 4 year old. No wonder you sound a bit p#!%ss>d off and sceptical MollieO. Sincere apologies for my misunderstanding.

If you want your children educated with other bright children rather than those with the average 100 IQ which is what I want then you need selection. Testa at 4 are dead easy for chilren as they just play and get watched and the clever ones get picked out. It works fine. it's not stressful at all or only for overly neurotic parents.

Surprised anyone went to a grammar school in the NE. I am from there and they abolished them when I was about 10 in 1971 and went entirely comprehensive.

No ABetaDad we're not London although we are South East. Ds is at a non-selective pre-prep simply because it is a very good school (best reputation where we live) and fits our needs, which the state schools for various reasons cannot. I have friends who send their dcs for tests at schools that they had no intention of going to just to see how their dcs were doing. The children that did those tests certainly knew at 3 that they were being asked a lot of questions by people they didn't know, although obviously wouldn't know what a test was at that age. Lots of prep done in advance too. I don't need to have ds tested to know that he is bright. I will be interested in that when we start making choices for secondary school! At this age it is all about enjoying school.

Back to the purpose of this thread and I certainly didn't consider the 'value added' element when choosing schools. I chose a school where I was pretty certain ds would be happy and which I actually had a fighting chance of doing something akin to a school run because of their hours. He is 4 and I really have no clue what he will do when he grows up. I won't expect a payback in terms of qualifications but I do hope that he grows up happy and well-adjusted.

I was talking to a mum today who was going on about how much she was paying for her dcs education and what she was demanding of the school. I found it a bit odd tbh but I think I was in the minority. I have had two issues so far with ds's school that I would have had wherever he was at school, one educational and one health (the latter was more concerning). Both were dealt with promptly and sympathetically and I know that wouldn't have happened if we had chosen our catchment school.

I think the value-added depends on the family ethos, the location (in our part of west London the only state school you are permitted is a police-ridden sink; for safety never mind education anyone reasonable would have to either pay or travel miles for a grammar alternative), but also the family's current income. If the family cannot really afford the fees but has a strong internal educational ethos (like ours), then it's better to go state (if a good school is to be had) as you can use the spare cash for other educational purposes. If you can easily afford the fees then in truth, although the education may be no better, the connections undoubtedly are. I speak as a barrister and in my profession at least, success is achieved by being well-connected as much as by being clever. For example in all the Chambers interviews I attended at the start of my career there was some sort of reference to my Oxbridge background. An Oxbridge (or similar) background is nowadays I believe even more dependent on what school you went to. So, if your child is able and your family ethos supportive, they will succeed financially whatever the school, but their path will be so much more smoothed if they have gone through the old boys club.