ds has just started year 7 and he’s basically me but worse

[ImDawn]

sorry this is probably going to be a bit all over the place because i genuinely don’t know what i’m asking.

ds is 11 and has just started year 7 and school have already contacted me so many times i’m starting to dread seeing their number come up. we’ve had a number of meetings already as well, which feels ridiculous when he’s only been there a few weeks. he’s been excluded from lessons, refuses to hand work in, walks out of class, swears when challenged, has been caught vaping with other boys and has had several detentions. he’s also had behaviour points for messing about, talking over teachers and refusing instructions. there was an incident last week where he was told to leave a lesson and then swore at the teacher and walked out.

i’m not going to say he’s some innocent little boy being picked on because he isn’t. some of his behaviour is awful and i’ve told him that. the vaping especially i was absolutely furious about. he’s 11 ffs. but this is where i’m struggling because he is basically me at that age. not just a little bit like me, he is me. except worse.

i was awful at school. i hated being told what to do, hated teachers who spoke to me like i was stupid and if i felt embarrassed in front of everyone i’d make it ten times worse rather than admit i was wrong. i was always being called lazy and disruptive and told i was capable of more. i stopped going properly when i was about 13/14 and eventually barely went at all. i left with hardly any qualifications. i’ve worked ever since so it’s not like i think my life is ruined because i didn’t stay in school, but i’ve never exactly had loads of choices either. i’ve done cleaning, warehouse work, admin bits, whatever was available. i’ve just been made redundant from my last job so i’m currently not working.

and i know what you’re probably thinking, that i’m projecting all of this onto him and tbh maybe i am. because when school tell me he’s been difficult i can see it. i KNOW he’s being difficult. but i also know what it feels like when you’ve already decided an adult thinks you’re stupid or badly behaved.

he came home the other day after being removed from a lesson. apparently the teacher told him to start some work, he didn’t understand it so started messing around. teacher told him to stop, he carried on, then refused when told again and eventually got told to leave. he swore. so yes, he behaved like a dick. i told him that. then he said to me “it doesn’t matter what i do they already think i’m a dick anyway”. and honestly that really got me because i remember feeling exactly like that. once i’d been labelled the difficult one, i thought there was no point trying because they were going to tell me off anyway. i’m scared he’s starting down that road already.

the school isn’t even awful, which makes this harder. one of the pastoral staff has been really nice to me and has phoned to talk things through rather than just having a go. another meeting they were actually trying to work out what would help him. one teacher told me he’s funny and bright but chooses to disrupt, another said when he actually does the work he’s perfectly capable. i understand why they’re fed up with him. if you’ve got 30 odd kids and one keeps refusing to do anything and getting the others laughing, i’d be fed up too. but everything seems to be behaviour, behaviour, behaviour. detention, behaviour point, phone call, another detention. we’ve had meeting after meeting and every time i come away thinking yes he needs to change but also what are we actually going to do differently this time?

he’s not like this all the time either. at home he can sit for hours doing things he actually likes. he knows everything there is to know about football. he can tell you who played for which team years ago but apparently his brain doesn’t work when it’s something from school. he’s also good with practical things. he helped his dad fix his bike the other week and concentrated and listened for ages. he likes cooking and will follow a recipe properly if he wants to make something. his football coach doesn’t seem to have any problems with him either. apparently he listens there. so it’s not that he physically can’t listen to an adult. it’s school. and i know how that sounds.

dp thinks i’m making too much of the fact that he’s like me. he says i’m looking at him and seeing myself and then giving him excuses i wouldn’t give another child. he said “you left school and you’ve spent your whole life struggling for money, is that really what you want for him?” which was horrible but i can’t pretend it didn’t make me think.

because no, i don’t want that for him. i don’t want him leaving school at 14 with nothing. but i also don’t want to spend the next five years watching him become more and more of a problem until everyone has decided he’s a lost cause. my mum thinks i’m doing the same thing. she remembers what i was like and says i’m trying to convince myself the school system was the problem for me, so now i’m doing the same with ds. she thinks if i take him out i’m just giving him permission to give up.

i’ve actually started looking into home education, which i never thought i’d say. not because i think it’s some amazing lifestyle, i just don’t know what else i’m supposed to do if school and him are already at war with each other. i’m not even sure i’d be any good at it. i’m not exactly qualified to teach year 7 maths. what happens with gcse’s? what happens when he’s 15 and wants a normal job? what if he just sits on the xbox all day? i’m at home now because of the redundancy so i could technically do it for the time being. dp works nights and sleeps a lot of the day so it would mostly be me dealing with it.

i’ve also looked at alternative provision but i don’t really know what i’m looking at. i don’t want him moved somewhere just because he’s badly behaved and then surrounded by even more kids who are struggling. he’s only just started secondary school. part of me thinks i’m completely mad even considering taking him out this early. then another part thinks if he’s already been removed from lessons, refusing work, walking out, swearing and vaping within a few weeks, what exactly am i waiting for?

dd is 7 and completely different. she loves school, gets her uniform ready the night before and cries if she’s ill and can’t go in. so it’s not like i’m against school full stop. it’s just ds. or maybe it’s me. i genuinely can’t work out which.

i don’t want people telling me he’s a misunderstood angel because he isn’t. he’s a pain in the arse sometimes and i tell him that. but i also don’t think “make him behave” is an answer because obviously i’ve tried that. school have tried that. we’ve had enough meetings about it now and detentions haven’t changed it. shouting hasn’t changed it. taking his phone away hasn’t changed it.

how do you know when you’re actually recognising that your child needs a different environment, and when you’re just projecting your own childhood onto them? because i hated school and left it early and i still don’t really like the whole system. and now i’ve got a boy sitting in front of me who is so much like i was that sometimes it honestly scares me. except he’s worse. and i don’t know if that means i understand him better than the school does or if it means i’m the worst person to be making this decision for him.

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What are the consequences at home for this behaviour?
what was the consequence for him vaping? Can’t imagine his football coach would be too impressed if he found that out!

What exactly do you expect the school to do? If he is disruptive, distracting, refuses to respect teachers and does not do what he is told... how do you think the school should respond? They have many other students to teach and manage, not just your DS. They cannot all stop what they are doing to dedicate all the hours of the day to try to figure out what to do so your DS decides to study and learn, and respect others. He may be the center of his own and your universe, but he is not the centre of theirs. They have many other children who also happen to be the centres of their own and their parents' universes.

We are defined by our actions. It does not matter how great, intelligent and bright we think or say we are... if we behave like an idiot, then we are idiots. A man who kills his wife may try to say he loved her, he didn't want to hurt her, he is not a bad person... but the reality is, his actions, not his words, are the ones which define him. We tell women not to believe men's words, but their actions, but then we tell our kids that it doesn't really matter what they do, that they are wonderful inside and it's just a matter bof time it will come out... I don't think we have done children any favours by this. For about 2 generations now, we tell kids "you are not naughty, your actions are naughty". But our actions define who we really are. You are what you do. After you leave this world, you will be remembered by what you did, not what you thought you were like in your head.

So, what do YOU want to do in order for your DS to show the wonderful person you think he is? Stop expecting everyone else to see the greatness in him. They don't, because he is not showing it at the moment. It is your responsibility to find solutions.

What's diet and sleep like? Whether he does or doesn't have any form of neurodivergence these two things can impact behaviour hugely.

If you think your relationship with him would get stronger rather than be damaged by a couple of years of home ed, and your household can afford it, I would consider it (alongside getting assessed for extra needs as posters have said). You don't have to, though -- if it doesn't feel right, maybe persist with school and look into him seeing an occupational therapist or attending some kind of art therapy or maybe getting support yourself through the difficulties.

But if educating at home, I would be focused on a broad routine and consider downloading what is needed for his learning and then having the wifi switched off for several hours each day for him to learn offline and with pen and paper, to build his tolerance for focusing on his work (he can take breaks, do arts and crafts, run about, read a book, play board or card games, fix bikes, do gardening etc, but not gaming breaks or youtube until an agreed time or perhaps enough work is done. Careful with framing though as you don't want 'online time' to be the focus.

I would also keep track of bedtimes and getting up times to keep night time for sleep. And consider sports teams, clubs, music groups, scouts or cadets type activities, to ensure lots of face to face interaction and social bonds. The academic content can be supported with standard workbooks to make sure he is on track so if appropriate he can attend school or college for GCSE and other courses. His behaviour is likely to change and he will probably need the specialist teaching as he matures. (My experience is that I teach secondary school and home educated an infant-school aged child for 2.5 years also).

I certainly wouldn't write off your idea about home ed. I understand why your mum, partner and some posters insist that he needs to learn to buckle down in school, generally speaking, that would be the best outcome. But there are a few kids in every year who just don't. It doesn't matter what you do. And for them, if the next 5 - 7 years becomes a battle ground, that really is their childhood education wasted, and often a long recovery period to climb back out of that pit of feeling not good enough.

But home ed is hard. If he doesn't like being told what to do at school - will that be a problem at home? Also, you're out of work now, but presumably you really need to find a job and that would make home ed particularly difficult. I don't think you necessarily have to be well educated yourself to make it work, but it's certainly a lot easier.

I would continue to work with the school. Maybe talk to them about your own experiences and see if they've got any insights into how to turn it around. But also do some research on how you might educate him otherwise. Maybe look into unschooling and talk to local parents who home educate. There will be groups in your area. See how successful they're being and if you think you could make that work for DS.

ADHD and PDA is probably at the root of this. It's highly genetic too. You have ADHD too, right?

in the circumstances I don’t think home ed is the answer

OP do you find coke or coffee calms you down and you can fall asleep?

Not to be facetious but have you had a heart to heart with him about what you’ve said here? Explain how you felt and the effect that’s had on your life and ask that he fully explain how he feels.

I would straight up say that you feel he’s now stuck in a cycle of may as well be a dick because they think I am anyway and ask him what could he do to break that cycle.

There was a thread on here before about a boy who’d secretly revised for his exams whilst pretending he hadn’t just so he could prove to his unsupportive teachers what he could do. This might be a bit far! But if you can think of one win he could have academically or behaviourally this might help motivate a change.

Another one saying ADHD/AuDHD with PDA potentially. And for the people who think we're making excuses for a 'bad' kid, we're not! We're parents or adults who have been down this road and recognise it clearly, this is a textbook scenario! My son sounds similar but he's very geeky not sporty so he never fell in with a crowd that would be vaping/causing trouble, but apart from that the story is very similar. Disruptive, strong sense of justice, arguing with authority, no fear, hated primary school, exceptionally bright but couldn't do school work, but can lock in on his favourite topics and know more than the experts. He was lucky to go to a neuro-friendly secondary school and is now doing great there with a low dose of ADHD medication after a period of trial and error.

I think the advice was to seek a diagnosis and then go from there…

This sounds serious… I think I’d be looking at serious punishments for poor school behaviour. No phone, grounding, no tv or whatever it is that he will feel is serious.
Can you afford any private tutoring?

I will be really honest with you and say that you say your school experiences haven’t really had that much of a bad consequence for you in life but I beg to differ. I think you need to separate yourself and him here - move on from your own bad experiences and don’t muddle the two; I think in some ways you having lived the same experience means it’s sort of acceptable - and it isn’t.
What would have helped you at that age??

I would do whatever was required to get him away from the groups of boys vaping at school. This will possibly lead to drug use to be completely honest in a few years and that is a dead end road. These boys will have no positive impact on your sons’ life whatsoever.
Id move schools or area if I had to, in order to find a better friendship group.

He needs to understand that this behavior at school is not an option. Everybody has to work hard to stick at things they don’t enjoy or find boring - he needs to learn this skill now; almost at any cost to be honest.

Can you have a chat with his football coach? Explain his behaviour at school and see if he will have a chat with him? It might be helpful coming from someone other than parents/teachers. Especially if the coach also explains that he expects good behaviour at school to be able to stay on the team.

Sometimes it might just be about finding the right thing to motivate him if detentions, taking away his phone etc doesn't work.

It sounds like there have been issues since primary school which the school were aware of but for some reason never took it further in trying to get a diagnosis. Primary school is so different as the teacher gets to know the child so well and often makes exceptions for behaviour which doesn't happen to the same extent in secondary.
It's likely that the teacher may even have spotted any signs your son was becoming disruptive and gave him a movement break to regulate, whether your son realised this or not (some kids will get taken out to play football for 5 mins which is obvious, others might get sent on an errand which is less so).

I would also suggest that you also get his eyes and ears tested. Someone mentioned does his behaviour change when asked to do the work as he is trying to cover up not being able to do the writing element.

I wouldn't say home educating is the answer unless you have lots of time and money to do it well. The people I know who home educate work as a team too with their partner which if yours isn't on board with won't work. The people I know who seem to do it well take their children to various home ed groups which help socially and cover learning elements but in a different way. They are relatively low cost but still add up if done several days a week. As you reach the older years its likely you would want him to gain a qualification so linking to a school/college to sit the exams as a private candidate might be needed and also you might need a tutor to cover the content unless you feel able to do so yourself.

I only have experience of primary so far but no-one gets excluded from lessons ever, nor have I ever heard of a detention being given out (and my kids’ school is one where behaviour is generally considered very good but there are a handful of troublesome kids who act up). The detentions were probably to try to prepare him for the shock of moving from a gentle, nurturing “let’s go and chat about why you are struggling to behave” primary to a “you’re messing about - have a detention” secondary.

He needs to learn how to knuckle down if he wants to stay in school. You could consider a new school for a fresh start but that won’t work if he doesn’t change his behaviour or attitude - in a few months you’ll be in the same situation with him saying “they just assume I’m going to be bad so I’ll
ne bad anyway”. I don’t know how you will get through to him other than talking to him about your problems in school, the limits placed on your life by dropping out at 14 and what you wish you had done differently.

Are you actually punishing him for any of this? He needs to know that if he gets in trouble at school then he's in trouble at home. No screens or football or whatever he likes at home if you've had a call from school.

This.

What consequences are you imposing at home for his poor behaviour? He is only 11, take his money away so he cant buy vapes.

Everything you describe is ADHD. Try and get a diagnosis as soon as you can, a friend of mine decided she didn’t want her son labelled so didn’t bother and he’s struggled his entire primary and secondary school life. He wouldn’t choose to be this way as I’m sure you wouldn’t have but impulsivity can make a person do very silly things and explains the vaping at such a young age!

Home ed requires educated supporting adults and a child motivated to learn. It doesnt sound like you have either.

Life isnt one long hobby. You need to parent much more firmly, you're his mother, not his friend. Parenting has a huge impact on behaviour. My sister married a guy who was like this at school. Their son started out seeming like a clone of his dad with a clear tendency to disrespect authority/misbehave, but my sister wasnt having any of it and has kept him in line for years through firm consequences at home. As a result hes the same age as your son but now gets excellent behaviour reports.

You say yourself that whilst you’ve worked ever since leaving school, you’ve never had many choices and have always had low paid choices. Have you said this to him? Have you told him that he won’t have many choices either?

I think first of all you need to be compassionate with yourself. I am sorry that the system failed you back then. They were different times.

I have a similar experience with my son, who is a couple of years older. Constant disruption, detentions, etc., although he does have SEN, and neither I nor DH was like that at all!

However, in the many times I’ve spoken to school, they have told me that they see plenty of this type of behaviour and much worse. They know that this is a very difficult age, and they don’t hate your child. They see that he is struggling, and they want him to succeed. They understand that they are all going through puberty and often have huge barriers before they can be ready to learn. They want to work with you. It may be useful for you to tell them what he is capable of, how he helped his dad, etc, so that they can find a way to motivate him - perhaps giving him more opportunity/responsibility in DT type subjects as it sounds like he prefers to work with his hands.

You are a caring and involved parent, the school is working with you - he has the support behind him to get through this.

What did you do at home when his behaviour at school was poor in primary?

Its on you to reinforce the need to respect the teachers, the school & authority generally, or you are likely to wind up with a miscreant anti social teen who gets himself into serious trouble later on.

I don't have much advice apart from don't tell your son that he is "Just like me".
He looks up to you. You are a resourceful, successful woman and mother, so this will not be a wake up call, or warning at all. It will also make him feel that he was always destined to behave like this and therefore absolve him of responsibility and accountability.

A lot of his behaviour choices will be dependent on who he is hanging round with. Year 7 vaping in toilets is very precocious, even nowadays. It may be that there is a core of very poorly behaved boys in his year group that have gravitated towards each other. If this is the case, the school needs to be pro-active and solve the problem from multiple angles.

You mentioned Hume schooling. How would that work? What work do you do? How would you manage when he just told you to stick it?