Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 3

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a third thread to discuss impact of VAT on private school fees, as the topic looks likely to run (and run). Though probably best to finish off the second thread before posting here, thx.

It is a massive guesstimate so I could be out but I’d be surprised if it was anywhere near as low all-in as £250k.

I did instruct Pannick once, a long time ago - he was definitely at the expensive end but brilliant.

Out of interest, who is funding the anti-VAT side?

I suspect @twistyizzy knows more but I think there’s some crowd funding for the single mother bringing the action in relation to a SEN child/children. And then the Independent Schools Council brought proceedings which are presumably being funded by the schools that are members one way or another.

I believe the actions have been joined now so that should mean the costs are lower as some can be shared.

CurlewKate it’s extremely ableist of you to just keep on asserting this, in the face of many parents’ experience who know very well otherwise. Please give it a rest.

The SEN claimant is being crowd funded. ISC are funding another claim and the faith claim is being funded by that religious organisation

The other advantage of the claims being brought together is that we now have breadth AND depth in 1 hearing. That's why the government tried to block the combining of all 3. Courts over ruled them.

It's just another example of Labour supporting supercilious and arrogant attitude

@EHCPerhapsPlease could you explain why I am ableist?And why you expect me to not ask for evidence of any sort for people’s claims?

You want me to post my ‘evidence’? What? You’re clearly not posting in good faith. Please remember this is a support site for parents.

I’ve made the same point multiple times on this thread already, as have several other parents of kids with SEND. There have been multiple threads on this topic of VAT, all saying the same thing. The crisis in SEND provision in mainstream and specialist state schools has been well documented in the UK media, for years now.

There are not school places in state schools that can meet the special educational needs and disabilities of our kids. It’s ableist to keep on insisting that there are.

Yes. This was my family’s experience too.

On another thread several weeks ago there were a few posters repeating ad finitum that state schools can meet the needs of every student. My son’s situation may be unusual, but he was not offered a mainstream state place for three years. I was then told that “unfortunately the world doesn’t revolve around those students”. Which I was then informed was not a spiteful comment.

So in a few short posts we went from “your son’s needs can be met in mainstream state” to “oh ok then, they can’t be met, but he doesn’t count”. I didn’t want the world to revolve around him, I just wanted a basic education for him. This is how I feel about Labour’s lack of plan for SEN students.

The Independent Schools Council (ISC - private school body) case for which solicitors Kingsley Napley are instructed has been joined together (ie one case now) with the separate case being brought by Education Not Discrimination, represented by solicitors SinclairsLaw. The High Court hears the case over 3 days in early April.

The state can use my tax payer money to fund ing's counsel if it wants but the whole measure is just a waste of money and very unfair particularly on higher earner very hard working mothers who choose to pay for a private school case. Obviously they are lucky to be able to afford to do so but they could have spent that spare money on something else which is less of a good thing. Also that group of women already have lost child benefit entirely and only get the minimal£2400 childcare help for 3 y ears olds which asylum seekers etc unlike the 30 free hours from age 9 month baby - the FT had an article yesterday about this£100k before tax (about £55k after tax) income group. This group also get no single person allowance either and now have the £10k a year new tax - the VAT on 2 children at day private school. By hitting these higher earners and in effect incentivising them to earn less the state has much less money to spend on the poor but I am getting off the point a bit now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80y21xvj11o

@twistyizzywell, of course they are entitled to free school transport if that is the nearest available school. The same applies to all state school pupils.

Paid for by the taxpayer as well as the per pupil funding whereas in the independent school the cost to the taxpayer was £0

She’s a taxpayer too.

Yes exactly, she previously paid twice. Now her child is a massive cost to the state when she wasn't before.

Interesting. From that article:
In a statement the Department for Education said that the policy "will raise £1.8 billion a year by 2029/30 and that just 0.1% of pupils will be switching from private to state schools"

Where to start? That the date is in the next term of government?!

Or that they can't do maths and/or are clueless about impacts (OK, we know that already!) when they say that only 0.1% of pupils will switch. That would be only 1.5% of the 7% of chuldren who are at private school switching. They had previously predicted 3-5%. And it's blindingly obvious that it will be more.

Or are they lying through pedantry? In 2029/2030 - 5 years after the introduced the new tax - only 2/7 of the children who were in private schools when it was introduced won't have moved anyway to the next stage of education. So if the children in the younger years just didn't start private school (when they would have otherwise) then they aren't strictly switching. Although the financial impact is the same for the state. Ie if 10% of those who would have gone private, instead choose state then the policy loses money every year.

Actually it's probably that last point, since 2/7 of 5% they said would migrate actually comes to the number they gave (1.5% of the 7%, which is 0.1% of all students)

So it looks like Labour are deliberately obfuscating the truth that the policy will lose money, through trickery and hoping that people can't do maths... as well as being incompetent by also underestimating the numbers who will migrate (it will be higher than 5%)... and also evading responsibility by pushing the date outside their term in office.

Pretty much what we would expect from Labour.

Three separate costs.

1. The extra cost to the state of educating her and transporting her, when previously her parents paid that entirely
2. The utility loss to the child, who is worse off having to leave her friends and travel 10 hours per week to get to school. The child is a UK citizen, so whatever Bridget Phillipson thinks about her not being one of 'our children', a loss to her without a benefit to others (which there won't be) is a policy cost
3. Possibly future lost income tax revenue and GDP growth, if the child is affected long term by the disruption to her education.

And no one benefits. Apart from the warm glow of spite.

Now state schools face "worst cuts of a generation"
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/worst-cuts-generation-education-schools-face-squeeze-3599008

Excellent analysis @strawberrybubblegum

Well that was a depressing read.

Still a head scratcher that despite these financial issues, they are desperate to drive more pupils into the state system and close private schools. Instead of trying to use the private system as a kind of pressure release until the financial position is better. They have just hamstrung their own plans to improve the state sector.

It really is quite incredible that they are letting ideology take precedence over fiscal common sense.

In trying to kick whatever Old Etonian said hurty words to Bridget back in her teen years, she's throwing state school students under the bus just as much as private school students.

She should be celebrating everytime someone takes their offspring off the list for state funding.

Because ideology trumps fiscal sense, see bunging train drivers all that money as one of their first actions, which made the black hole a super massive black hole