Whitehall “braced for private schools collapse” 3

[ICouldBeVioletSky]

Starting a third thread to discuss impact of VAT on private school fees, as the topic looks likely to run (and run). Though probably best to finish off the second thread before posting here, thx.

All quite predictable. It’s always been a purely spite policy aimed at disrupting the childhood of the offspring of ‘wrong thinking’ parents. Probably one of the most insidious and self destructive policies of the last 30 years at a time we can least afford it.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/326/petitions-committee/news/205483/mps-to-debate-a-petition-relating-to-vat-on-independent-school-fees-and-business-rates-relief-for-independent-schools/

debate: mon 3rd, 4.30pm

I’ve just heard my old school - an historic establishment in Surrey - will be closing at the end of this academic year. Entirely predictable

@VanCleefArpels , yes I just saw The Royal school is closing, shocking what is happening to education.

It will just be the usual ‘ not taxing education is a tax loophole’ and it’s worth a few kids being forced out of their school and schools closing nonsense. After all, as Phillipson confirmed, the children losing their schools are not ‘our’ children.

Surrey CC are now responsible for finding another 200 dc school places with the closure of The Royal School along with the 1'000's of new applications they have received since July.

And Surrey is 1 of the LAs quoting 0 spaces.....parents should be holding their MPs + Labour to account

While I agree that this will probably be the government's line, the Lords debates on the subject were actually good - they highlighted many of the likely unintended side-effects and adverse consequences of this ridiculous policy. See eg.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2024-09-05/debates/19B15FAA-861E-4FF6-8E39-220389D35F95/IndependentSchoolsVATExemption

If the ECHR legal action results in the education tax being found as a breach, the government is wide open to be sued by the parents of every school that has closed down for financial reasons in the last 6 months. I’m not surprised Labour are throwing 4 KCs at defending it.

I really hope those parents DO sue!
Of course all that expense of 4 x QCs course have been avoided if Labour had simply engaged with the sector to bother to understand the impact. Now the taxpayer is paying for 4 x QCs and potential civil claims if they lose. All because Labour refused to engage/listen.

Any estimate for how much that will have cost?

I'm still interested in seeing how the financial case stacks up. Is there a way to find out how much net VAT the government take from schools this year?

The press release on the closure says that "the roll in September was projected to be fewer than 100." so if there were 200 before, a fair few had already applied to go elsewhere.

IAAL and while it’s not my area of expertise I don’t think this is right.

If the current legal actions succeed this will mean the court declares the policy to be incompatible with the relevant human rights law. That would require parliament to consider if and how the policy/VAT law could be amended so as to comply with human rights law. Which would likely involve some sort of a fudge, rather than revoking the law or anything that radical.

It wouldn’t give rise to any cause of action by families of schools who have been forced to close.

Possibly, I’m no expert either. My understanding is that Labour can and will most likely ignore the ruling, leaving themselves open. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'm not originally British: I'm naturalised, after marrying my English husband. The thing that saddens me most about all this is the loss of what feels like the quintessential "British" education, the way I as an outsider saw it. I come from a former British colony and grew up reading Mallory Towers and plenty of British school stories - a lot of my Anglophilia comes from books I read. No surprise that I ended up with a Brit really. Now that I'm (much) older and witnessing so much cultural change in the UKs education system: there is a bit of grief that a lot will be lost in the closure of schools that have been here over centuries. I remain baffled that a government can be exulting in the reduction (with a goal of elimination) of a sector that set the standard for education around the world. So bloody pointless and destructive.

It is sad @SoaringKitty

The fact that the reason they want to destroy it is because it's good (and they see it as unfair that some children get that and other children don't) is hard to understand or forgive.

While I agree that this will probably be the government's line, the Lords debates on the subject were actually good - they highlighted many of the likely unintended side-effects and adverse consequences of this ridiculous policy.

There will be plenty of side-effects and adverse consequences, but the more private schools that close, then the happier the government will be.
I think they know perfectly well very little money will be raised.

They had 296 in April 2023 according to their last inspection - that's a big fall (although it was across all the age groups including 50 odd in the nursery).

They had already closed the nursery and all years below year 5.

Sounds like it was already in trouble then.

Why do people try minimise the impact of the governmen's policy, by saying that the schools which close were already in trouble?

Of course it will be the weaker schools which fail! But the point is that they may not have failed without the government's attack. And whilst they were open, they provided value to some families - who chose to use them.

It's like saying that a pensioner who ended up with pneumonia due to the loss of WFA was already barely able to heat her home adequately. Yes, that's exactly the point. She was only just managing, and the government's policy took that away.

Likewise with schools, the closures will be those who were vulnerable and only just managing. But they were managing. Before.

Surrey County Council have said they have no spare school spaces. The school is in a rural surrey town, so they are likely to need to fund extra school transport.

I've attached a breakdown of how SCC spend their budget. Services for vulnerable adults and children make up 2/3 of the budget. But with the closure of this school and others, more of SCC's budget will have to be used for extra school transport.

But those people were already vulnerable, and the services already struggling. Do you think that changes the harm that they will experience due to the budget to help them being cut?

It's also very close to the Hampshire and West Sussex borders so some parents might choose to apply there (and may already live there), if they aren't looking at other private options, which I'm sure some will.

Oh well, only a few children taxi-ed out of county then. And only a few services for vulnerable adults stopped as a result.

No problem then, even though it was all completely unnecessary and pure vindictiveness.

Since when has any government petition had an impact? They'll debate, it'll be divided on party lines and they'll go ahead anyway stating that it is a manifesto commitment. The legal cases are the only thing that has a possibility of changing it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. This is a policy that will probably be reversed in a couple of years once the damage has been done.