How many kids do you know definitely leaving private for state?

[Quodraceratops]

I'd be very interested to know how many children people know of who are definitely leaving their private school for a state school - not people with plans to do so in future years, solely those definitely going now / in 2025.
For myself - large Scottish all years school, I only have knowledge of my early primary kids's classes - no-one leaving so far (but I'm guessing early primary may be less affected as Labour have been signalling this policy for a while so you wouldn't start if you couldn't afford VAT).

Well, it bloody well should be means-tested then (and hopefully will be). I understand that there is a need to provide school transport in many cases (SEN going to special schools, or especially difficult situations where parents are genuinely unable to drive their kids to school for unavoidable reasons and who have to live in the countryside because they do actual rural jobs, like farming).

But the only rural people I know who would have considered private schooling (no SEN) are the kind of well-off people who commute into town to work, and who live in rural areas for lifestyle reasons, because they want big gardens, pretty villages, rural hobbies etc. Totally valid if that's their choice, but it should absolutely be their responsibility to get their kids to school, regardless of whether it's state or private.

Sure, but means testing for everyone is an admin nightmare and incredibly expensive, so there will be plenty who take whatever is the simplest, cheapest and easiest option. There are a lot of existing state school parents who are very wealthy, same as private, but no means testing for anything regarding education there. Once these wealthy ex private parents join those ranks - they are the same as everyone else, and will qualify for LA transport to school if the only one available is a certain distance from home. That's the law, whether we like it or not. As far as I know, it's for primary only. Secondary schools - children find their own way to school.

Yes I have - I live in a POLAR 2 area.

The system is a blunt tool, but then I think any PS educated students who qualify for contextual offers (other than those that go to state 6th form and get an offer via Bristol’s whacky system) have other things going on in their lives that make them eligible.

And, as I said, meeting the eligibility requirements for a contextual offer doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll get one.

I also found this comment a bit confusing. I expect that visits from "captains of industry" made to secondary schools are just there to help inspire students, get them to start thinking ambitiously about careers, and maybe offer a few generic tips. I've done a couple of such motivation-type visits to schools myself.

I can't even fathom a world where these would be actual networking opportunities. Maybe I'm wrong (and I could be), but I find it exceedingly unlikely that professionals are looking to make actual working networks with high school students, hold onto those contacts for 3-4 years, and then offer them jobs.

Without knowing more about the students in question, it's impossible to know why some got better jobs than others. It's perfectly plausible there is some unfairness about the situation. But I think that the "connections from private school" mechanism seems unlikely.

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Our dc have bern to state school but have lots of privately educated friends through their hobbies. None are moving schools or even trying, several have moved from the state comp to private sixth form.

Most selective independants / grammars become influential during 6th form when they get support with mcats / other tests. The secondary attached to ds’ prep hosts mandatory mock mcat tests for all students at gcse and then again at a level where they get mock interviews too.

Similar with some other professions - eg the ability to get investment banking / architecture / it contracting experience before 18.

Even the less academically able kids benefit. Eg it’s quite common for kids who enter construction to have their own businesses by 21 with their friends as investors lol.

So it doesn’t matter where these kids go to uni. Once they set their eyes on a profession they’ll be able to go for it.

It's totally a thing in private schools to have alumni networks, which are usually wrapped up with fundraising events for bursaries etc.

Our DSs school has an alumni LinkedIn group where new grads join every year and there are organised speaker events for the professions and a fair amount of discussion of internships etc. Pretty normal to see ' my DD, just graduated with a degree in XYZ is looking for experience in <particular field> can anyone help?' and usually a fair few responses/offers.

Okay then, I stand corrected!

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Free transport to state schools is par for the course, but it's actually quite tightly regulated. It's dependent on LA, but it's usually only if you live more than 2 miles away from your primary school by the safest walking route, AND it's your catchment school AND you put it down as one of your choices, or to the next school if the LA was unable to offer you a place at your catchment school due to oversubscription.

It's a 3 mile safe walking route distance for secondary. If you choose to go to another school, you're paying for it yourself.

@Divoc2020 - but surely the alumni networks via top universities are far superior than any private school?

Also, the networks the parents themselves have via their already influential jobs?

My kids make friends at uni, of course, but their friends, as yet, have no power or jobs. It’s a generation down the line that the network comes into play.

Plus all the very top recruiters in law and banking, for example, have very strict compliance on internships now. A savvy parent can get the DCs to look on the website in time, but it ends there. It’s endless rounds of interviews and cognitive tests and observance on team work/leadership skills etc that is relevant. What is important is clever, self motivated kids who can talk to anyone from any social background.

From our experience of DSs at two different RG unis I'd say the uni Alumni opportunities are pretty broad and impersonal, although probably better in some of the professions (LAw? Medicine?) perhaps.

The thing about school alumni connections is that they tend to more local, personal and help a student get a step on the ladder towards the longer term goal e.g. a child who wants to be a vet gets to work over summer at the stables of a parent who keeps horses sort of thing?
Also while the big firms may be more structured and regulated around internships this obviously doesn't have to be the case for smaller, private firms. One of our school parents has a long-standing arrangement where they take 2 economics/maths students every year for summer internships in their investment/ financial planning firm.

None.

And are usually the ones which parents who have SEN children chose to send their kids to so they can get the support needed that is woefully underfunded in the state system and doubtful this tax will do much to improve in the short to medium term.

Home educating would cost more than the VAT increase unless the new home educator was not in paid work. In which case they could get a job to pay for the VAT if they thought school was better than home educating.

In these circumstances homeschooling is a temporary necessity until a state school place opens. It's not a lifestyle choice.

And anyway, how do you come to the conclusion that homeschooling is more expensive than a private school + 20% VAT? The families I know who permanently homeschool as a lifestyle choice have very low incomes and do most of it using free or cheap online resources.

The connections weren't through friends at uni. They were set up for them before they even left the school, and by the school. That was what our friends' money bought. They were quite open about that. But they still resented kids from poor areas and poor schools, potentially getting a leg up, and having their achievement recognised.

It's their resentment that I have an issue with. Not them spending money on private education.

This whole connections thing, I did private schooling, I cannot think of a single person who got a job through their school connections... None. Also the ones that have done well, it's been on skill not their school connections.

I know some parents that have had high hopes on how their kids expensive education is going to make them succeed in life (if we measure success by money, I know it's much more than this), and been disappointed. For some the private school pays off, for some it doesn't.

@HairyToity completely agree. Dh went to a well known London day school and he got a brilliant job because he got a first class degree from Cambridge and thereafter jobs came because he was really good at his job. None of his school friends have ever “leveraged connections”. We’ve sent dc to (the same) private school for the extracurricular opportunities onsite,
longer hours and smaller class sizes. No expectation that we’re buying exam results or connections : that’s madness if people think they can buy that.

Our council sends millions every year providing taxis to children as young as four - when the schools are full the kids can get sent miles away. It's shit for all involved as who wants to put their four year old in a taxi everyday? Using council transport would be necessary if DC were allocated a place miles away - it's the only way I could get DC to school. There were several reasons we chose the private school for DC, including wrap around care and, most importantly for us, location.

I know several students who got internships in part through their classmates' parents. It turns out that it's a lot easier to find internships if friendly people with industry knowledge help you, sometimes just by asking around in their companies about what's available. It also turns out that, notwithstanding what some large companies may be doing, many HR departments will still look more closely at a CV if someone in the company calls up to express an interest, especially if it's someone senior.

I don't know anyone who admits or believes that they got a job for which they would have otherwise been rejected solely because of connections. But I do know many whose connections probably helped them stand out a bit amongst a group of similarly qualified potential applicants.

Everyone in the village I live in gets transport funded as nearest schools are all over the 3 miles unless they have chosen private, or one that is much further away like we did.

I know quite a few teenagers who have moved into the state system for sixth form. Some may have chosen to anyway though. College offers a different experience from school. I also know one family who are not going private after primary school when they had planned to. I don’t know anyone leaving immediately, but many are considering their options for the next natural transition points in their children’s education.

Families who choose to homeschool are foregoing the salary that they would otherwise be able to earn. Some families will be homeschooling because they find it hard to otherwise meet their child's needs, which will make it harder if not impossible to get paid work. But it would be cheaper to pay the VAT than to quit work and homeschool.

Well I don't know anyone with kids at private school but my DD just starting Y13 at a huge 6th form college says that there appear to be loads of Y12 kids. She only received her timetable the evening before the day she was due to go back because the college say they have 'received an unprecedented number of late applications to the college' which have led to enrolment and timetabling issues. WTF people couldn't be arsed to actually apply on time back in June I have no idea.

Even more annoyingly her Psychology class has been split up and all the students distributed to other classes so that another Y12 class can be created so DD has to get used to a new teacher and new classmates.

In our area the current Y12 is large, in YR there were a lot of bulge classes, but that wouldn't explain so many late applications, I suspect the VAT has caused it. I know the college will love the extra fees it gets but it annoys me that the Y13s suffer for it, I think the college should have just said that Psychology was oversubscribed and that students would have to choose another subject.